Standard deduction V. mortgage interest deduction - is it basically only for the rich?Calculating savings...
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Standard deduction V. mortgage interest deduction - is it basically only for the rich?
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In the USA experience:
I find the whole "mortgage interest deduction V. standard deduction" issue confusing.
Here's how I understand it:
Everyone gets a $24,000 deduction. Great so far.
If you like, you can instead take your mortgage interest as a deduction. (Obviously you would not do this unless that interest is $24,001 or more.)
The vast majority of folks in the US with a mortgage pay about $10,000 a year in interest - nowhere near the $24k point.
For rich people, your mortage interest is going to be more than $24,000. Let's say $50,000!
Et voila, rich people get an extra ($26,000 in the example) tax break.
My question is simply, do I understand the situation correctly?
Maybe there's another factor I don't know about?
Is the "Standard deduction V. mortgage interest deduction" issue simply a case of "a break for anyone with a pricey house"?
Thanks, colonial friends! :)
{Note - of course there are a few obscure cases where folks have other, very large, deductions they can itemize, say, extremely large "tithe" charitable donations or whatever. I'm dismissing those cases. The overwhelming, normal, itemized deduction would be "mortgage interest."}
united-states tax-deduction
asked 1 hour ago
FattieFattie
3,69831735
add a comment |
In the USA experience:
I find the whole "mortgage interest deduction V. standard deduction" issue confusing.
Here's how I understand it:
Everyone gets a $24,000 deduction. Great so far.
If you like, you can instead take your mortgage interest as a deduction. (Obviously you would not do this unless that interest is $24,001 or more.)
The vast majority of folks in the US with a mortgage pay about $10,000 a year in interest - nowhere near the $24k point.
For rich people, your mortage interest is going to be more than $24,000. Let's say $50,000!
Et voila, rich people get an extra ($26,000 in the example) tax break.
My question is simply, do I understand the situation correctly?
Maybe there's another factor I don't know about?
Is the "Standard deduction V. mortgage interest deduction" issue simply a case of "a break for anyone with a pricey house"?
Thanks, colonial friends! :)
{Note - of course there are a few obscure cases where folks have other, very large, deductions they can itemize, say, extremely large "tithe" charitable donations or whatever. I'm dismissing those cases. The overwhelming, normal, itemized deduction would be "mortgage interest."}
united-states tax-deduction
asked 1 hour ago
FattieFattie
3,69831735
PS the headline is not meant to be political clickbait: I could not care less who does or doesn't pay taxes. I just don't understand that mechanism.
– Fattie
1 hour ago
And this concept doesn't extrapolate against the entire country. A lot of folks in CA and NY got big tax increases as a result of the tax cut's changes to the deductions for things like state taxes, property taxes and mortgage interest. Its the limitation on all of these things combined, not just mortgage interest. A lot of apartment dwelling silicon valley employees were itemizing previously due to state income tax...
– quid
1 hour ago
add a comment |
In the USA experience:
I find the whole "mortgage interest deduction V. standard deduction" issue confusing.
Here's how I understand it:
Everyone gets a $24,000 deduction. Great so far.
If you like, you can instead take your mortgage interest as a deduction. (Obviously you would not do this unless that interest is $24,001 or more.)
The vast majority of folks in the US with a mortgage pay about $10,000 a year in interest - nowhere near the $24k point.
For rich people, your mortage interest is going to be more than $24,000. Let's say $50,000!
Et voila, rich people get an extra ($26,000 in the example) tax break.
My question is simply, do I understand the situation correctly?
Maybe there's another factor I don't know about?
Is the "Standard deduction V. mortgage interest deduction" issue simply a case of "a break for anyone with a pricey house"?
Thanks, colonial friends! :)
{Note - of course there are a few obscure cases where folks have other, very large, deductions they can itemize, say, extremely large "tithe" charitable donations or whatever. I'm dismissing those cases. The overwhelming, normal, itemized deduction would be "mortgage interest."}
united-states tax-deduction
asked 1 hour ago
FattieFattie
3,69831735
In the USA experience:
I find the whole "mortgage interest deduction V. standard deduction" issue confusing.
Here's how I understand it:
Everyone gets a $24,000 deduction. Great so far.
If you like, you can instead take your mortgage interest as a deduction. (Obviously you would not do this unless that interest is $24,001 or more.)
The vast majority of folks in the US with a mortgage pay about $10,000 a year in interest - nowhere near the $24k point.
For rich people, your mortage interest is going to be more than $24,000. Let's say $50,000!
Et voila, rich people get an extra ($26,000 in the example) tax break.
My question is simply, do I understand the situation correctly?
Maybe there's another factor I don't know about?
Is the "Standard deduction V. mortgage interest deduction" issue simply a case of "a break for anyone with a pricey house"?
Thanks, colonial friends! :)
{Note - of course there are a few obscure cases where folks have other, very large, deductions they can itemize, say, extremely large "tithe" charitable donations or whatever. I'm dismissing those cases. The overwhelming, normal, itemized deduction would be "mortgage interest."}
united-states tax-deduction
united-states tax-deduction
asked 1 hour ago
FattieFattie
3,69831735
asked 1 hour ago
FattieFattie
3,69831735
asked 1 hour ago
FattieFattie
3,69831735
asked 1 hour ago
FattieFattie
3,69831735
asked 1 hour ago
FattieFattie
3,69831735
3,69831735
PS the headline is not meant to be political clickbait: I could not care less who does or doesn't pay taxes. I just don't understand that mechanism.
– Fattie
1 hour ago
And this concept doesn't extrapolate against the entire country. A lot of folks in CA and NY got big tax increases as a result of the tax cut's changes to the deductions for things like state taxes, property taxes and mortgage interest. Its the limitation on all of these things combined, not just mortgage interest. A lot of apartment dwelling silicon valley employees were itemizing previously due to state income tax...
– quid
1 hour ago
add a comment |
PS the headline is not meant to be political clickbait: I could not care less who does or doesn't pay taxes. I just don't understand that mechanism.
– Fattie
1 hour ago
And this concept doesn't extrapolate against the entire country. A lot of folks in CA and NY got big tax increases as a result of the tax cut's changes to the deductions for things like state taxes, property taxes and mortgage interest. Its the limitation on all of these things combined, not just mortgage interest. A lot of apartment dwelling silicon valley employees were itemizing previously due to state income tax...
– quid
1 hour ago
PS the headline is not meant to be political clickbait: I could not care less who does or doesn't pay taxes. I just don't understand that mechanism.
– Fattie
1 hour ago
PS the headline is not meant to be political clickbait: I could not care less who does or doesn't pay taxes. I just don't understand that mechanism.
– Fattie
1 hour ago
And this concept doesn't extrapolate against the entire country. A lot of folks in CA and NY got big tax increases as a result of the tax cut's changes to the deductions for things like state taxes, property taxes and mortgage interest. Its the limitation on all of these things combined, not just mortgage interest. A lot of apartment dwelling silicon valley employees were itemizing previously due to state income tax...
– quid
1 hour ago
And this concept doesn't extrapolate against the entire country. A lot of folks in CA and NY got big tax increases as a result of the tax cut's changes to the deductions for things like state taxes, property taxes and mortgage interest. Its the limitation on all of these things combined, not just mortgage interest. A lot of apartment dwelling silicon valley employees were itemizing previously due to state income tax...
– quid
1 hour ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
1. Everyone gets a $24,000 deduction. Great so far.
Yes, the married filing jointly folk have a $24k standard deduction for 2018.
2. If you like, you can instead take your mortgage interest as a deduction. (Obviously you would not do this unless that interest is $24,001 or more.)
The other common itemized deduction is state and local taxes paid (SALT), but mortgage interest historically was the most common item that made itemizing deductions advantageous to people. New tax law capped this SALT deduction at $10k, which is very significant for even middle-class folks in some high-tax areas.
3. The vast majority of folks in the US with a mortgage pay about $10,000 a year in interest - nowhere near the $24k point.
Add in $10k in state and local taxes paid and some other itemized deductions and it gets a bit closer, but part of the intent of raising the standard deduction was to make itemizing less common, simplifying tax returns.
4. For rich people, your mortage interest is going to be more than $24,000. Let's say $50,000!
The deduction is only good for up to $750,000 in loan balance, so $50k is unreasonable, $30k would be about the first year's worth of interest on a $750k loan at 4%, so $50k could happen if they had a terrible rate, but the $750,000 limit puts a ceiling on this deduction.
5. Et voila, rich people get an extra ($26,000 in the example) tax break.
Yes, itemized deductions primarily benefit those with high income. However, tax deductions reduce the amount of income that is subjected to tax, so the benefit is a fraction of the all that money spent on interest/taxes/charity/etc. I'm not sure I'd call it an 'extra' tax break. Conversely, all those that have itemized deductions below the standard deduction benefit from a higher standard deduction, but I'm not sure I'd call that an extra tax break for them either. Regardless of what is perceived to be fair we also have a progressive tax rate which results in the highest income households paying more income tax (in general).
answered 1 hour ago
Hart COHart CO
34.4k68096
3
Good answer. On (5), it might be worth clarifying that the number cited is not the "tax break". It's a reduction in taxable income, but the actual reduction in taxes is that amount times the marginal rate (or rates, if the deduction causes income to cross a bracket boundary) at which that income would have been taxed. Effectively, the deduction gives people a discount on their interest payment, and people with higher income get a bigger discount--why many on all sides object to this particular deduction.
– Rick Goldstein
53 mins ago
@RickGoldstein Thanks for feedback, edited to clarify that point.
– Hart CO
41 mins ago
add a comment |
It is as simple as picking which one of the two is larger -
(1) Your standard deduction, or
(2) The sum of all your itemized deductions, taking SALT cap into consideration
Obviously you would not do this unless that interest is $24,001 or more.
Especially for taxpayers with a mortgage, it is very common to own a property (the one they have the mortgage for) - in which case they are able to deduct (a portion of) their real estate tax.
For example, if I have $9000 in state and local taxes deduction, it is only sufficient for my mortgage interest to exceed $15000 for me to prefer itemizing deductions.
However, in my opinion, your are right about mortgage interest deduction only making a difference for people with either large mortgages (expensive houses), or perhaps the ones with lots of other itemized deductions (e.g., high healthcare costs). This appears in alignment with one of the stated goals of TCJA, which was to increase the ratio of taxpayers preferring taking standard deduction over itemizing.
answered 1 hour ago
void_ptrvoid_ptr
1,13249
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
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votes
active
oldest
votes
1. Everyone gets a $24,000 deduction. Great so far.
Yes, the married filing jointly folk have a $24k standard deduction for 2018.
2. If you like, you can instead take your mortgage interest as a deduction. (Obviously you would not do this unless that interest is $24,001 or more.)
The other common itemized deduction is state and local taxes paid (SALT), but mortgage interest historically was the most common item that made itemizing deductions advantageous to people. New tax law capped this SALT deduction at $10k, which is very significant for even middle-class folks in some high-tax areas.
3. The vast majority of folks in the US with a mortgage pay about $10,000 a year in interest - nowhere near the $24k point.
Add in $10k in state and local taxes paid and some other itemized deductions and it gets a bit closer, but part of the intent of raising the standard deduction was to make itemizing less common, simplifying tax returns.
4. For rich people, your mortage interest is going to be more than $24,000. Let's say $50,000!
The deduction is only good for up to $750,000 in loan balance, so $50k is unreasonable, $30k would be about the first year's worth of interest on a $750k loan at 4%, so $50k could happen if they had a terrible rate, but the $750,000 limit puts a ceiling on this deduction.
5. Et voila, rich people get an extra ($26,000 in the example) tax break.
Yes, itemized deductions primarily benefit those with high income. However, tax deductions reduce the amount of income that is subjected to tax, so the benefit is a fraction of the all that money spent on interest/taxes/charity/etc. I'm not sure I'd call it an 'extra' tax break. Conversely, all those that have itemized deductions below the standard deduction benefit from a higher standard deduction, but I'm not sure I'd call that an extra tax break for them either. Regardless of what is perceived to be fair we also have a progressive tax rate which results in the highest income households paying more income tax (in general).
answered 1 hour ago
Hart COHart CO
34.4k68096
3
Good answer. On (5), it might be worth clarifying that the number cited is not the "tax break". It's a reduction in taxable income, but the actual reduction in taxes is that amount times the marginal rate (or rates, if the deduction causes income to cross a bracket boundary) at which that income would have been taxed. Effectively, the deduction gives people a discount on their interest payment, and people with higher income get a bigger discount--why many on all sides object to this particular deduction.
– Rick Goldstein
53 mins ago
@RickGoldstein Thanks for feedback, edited to clarify that point.
– Hart CO
41 mins ago
add a comment |
1. Everyone gets a $24,000 deduction. Great so far.
Yes, the married filing jointly folk have a $24k standard deduction for 2018.
2. If you like, you can instead take your mortgage interest as a deduction. (Obviously you would not do this unless that interest is $24,001 or more.)
The other common itemized deduction is state and local taxes paid (SALT), but mortgage interest historically was the most common item that made itemizing deductions advantageous to people. New tax law capped this SALT deduction at $10k, which is very significant for even middle-class folks in some high-tax areas.
3. The vast majority of folks in the US with a mortgage pay about $10,000 a year in interest - nowhere near the $24k point.
Add in $10k in state and local taxes paid and some other itemized deductions and it gets a bit closer, but part of the intent of raising the standard deduction was to make itemizing less common, simplifying tax returns.
4. For rich people, your mortage interest is going to be more than $24,000. Let's say $50,000!
The deduction is only good for up to $750,000 in loan balance, so $50k is unreasonable, $30k would be about the first year's worth of interest on a $750k loan at 4%, so $50k could happen if they had a terrible rate, but the $750,000 limit puts a ceiling on this deduction.
5. Et voila, rich people get an extra ($26,000 in the example) tax break.
Yes, itemized deductions primarily benefit those with high income. However, tax deductions reduce the amount of income that is subjected to tax, so the benefit is a fraction of the all that money spent on interest/taxes/charity/etc. I'm not sure I'd call it an 'extra' tax break. Conversely, all those that have itemized deductions below the standard deduction benefit from a higher standard deduction, but I'm not sure I'd call that an extra tax break for them either. Regardless of what is perceived to be fair we also have a progressive tax rate which results in the highest income households paying more income tax (in general).
answered 1 hour ago
Hart COHart CO
34.4k68096
3
Good answer. On (5), it might be worth clarifying that the number cited is not the "tax break". It's a reduction in taxable income, but the actual reduction in taxes is that amount times the marginal rate (or rates, if the deduction causes income to cross a bracket boundary) at which that income would have been taxed. Effectively, the deduction gives people a discount on their interest payment, and people with higher income get a bigger discount--why many on all sides object to this particular deduction.
– Rick Goldstein
53 mins ago
@RickGoldstein Thanks for feedback, edited to clarify that point.
– Hart CO
41 mins ago
add a comment |
1. Everyone gets a $24,000 deduction. Great so far.
Yes, the married filing jointly folk have a $24k standard deduction for 2018.
2. If you like, you can instead take your mortgage interest as a deduction. (Obviously you would not do this unless that interest is $24,001 or more.)
The other common itemized deduction is state and local taxes paid (SALT), but mortgage interest historically was the most common item that made itemizing deductions advantageous to people. New tax law capped this SALT deduction at $10k, which is very significant for even middle-class folks in some high-tax areas.
3. The vast majority of folks in the US with a mortgage pay about $10,000 a year in interest - nowhere near the $24k point.
Add in $10k in state and local taxes paid and some other itemized deductions and it gets a bit closer, but part of the intent of raising the standard deduction was to make itemizing less common, simplifying tax returns.
4. For rich people, your mortage interest is going to be more than $24,000. Let's say $50,000!
The deduction is only good for up to $750,000 in loan balance, so $50k is unreasonable, $30k would be about the first year's worth of interest on a $750k loan at 4%, so $50k could happen if they had a terrible rate, but the $750,000 limit puts a ceiling on this deduction.
5. Et voila, rich people get an extra ($26,000 in the example) tax break.
Yes, itemized deductions primarily benefit those with high income. However, tax deductions reduce the amount of income that is subjected to tax, so the benefit is a fraction of the all that money spent on interest/taxes/charity/etc. I'm not sure I'd call it an 'extra' tax break. Conversely, all those that have itemized deductions below the standard deduction benefit from a higher standard deduction, but I'm not sure I'd call that an extra tax break for them either. Regardless of what is perceived to be fair we also have a progressive tax rate which results in the highest income households paying more income tax (in general).
answered 1 hour ago
Hart COHart CO
34.4k68096
1. Everyone gets a $24,000 deduction. Great so far.
Yes, the married filing jointly folk have a $24k standard deduction for 2018.
2. If you like, you can instead take your mortgage interest as a deduction. (Obviously you would not do this unless that interest is $24,001 or more.)
The other common itemized deduction is state and local taxes paid (SALT), but mortgage interest historically was the most common item that made itemizing deductions advantageous to people. New tax law capped this SALT deduction at $10k, which is very significant for even middle-class folks in some high-tax areas.
3. The vast majority of folks in the US with a mortgage pay about $10,000 a year in interest - nowhere near the $24k point.
Add in $10k in state and local taxes paid and some other itemized deductions and it gets a bit closer, but part of the intent of raising the standard deduction was to make itemizing less common, simplifying tax returns.
4. For rich people, your mortage interest is going to be more than $24,000. Let's say $50,000!
The deduction is only good for up to $750,000 in loan balance, so $50k is unreasonable, $30k would be about the first year's worth of interest on a $750k loan at 4%, so $50k could happen if they had a terrible rate, but the $750,000 limit puts a ceiling on this deduction.
5. Et voila, rich people get an extra ($26,000 in the example) tax break.
Yes, itemized deductions primarily benefit those with high income. However, tax deductions reduce the amount of income that is subjected to tax, so the benefit is a fraction of the all that money spent on interest/taxes/charity/etc. I'm not sure I'd call it an 'extra' tax break. Conversely, all those that have itemized deductions below the standard deduction benefit from a higher standard deduction, but I'm not sure I'd call that an extra tax break for them either. Regardless of what is perceived to be fair we also have a progressive tax rate which results in the highest income households paying more income tax (in general).
answered 1 hour ago
Hart COHart CO
34.4k68096
edited 43 mins ago
answered 1 hour ago
Hart COHart CO
34.4k68096
answered 1 hour ago
Hart COHart CO
34.4k68096
answered 1 hour ago
Hart COHart CO
34.4k68096
34.4k68096
3
Good answer. On (5), it might be worth clarifying that the number cited is not the "tax break". It's a reduction in taxable income, but the actual reduction in taxes is that amount times the marginal rate (or rates, if the deduction causes income to cross a bracket boundary) at which that income would have been taxed. Effectively, the deduction gives people a discount on their interest payment, and people with higher income get a bigger discount--why many on all sides object to this particular deduction.
– Rick Goldstein
53 mins ago
@RickGoldstein Thanks for feedback, edited to clarify that point.
– Hart CO
41 mins ago
add a comment |
3
Good answer. On (5), it might be worth clarifying that the number cited is not the "tax break". It's a reduction in taxable income, but the actual reduction in taxes is that amount times the marginal rate (or rates, if the deduction causes income to cross a bracket boundary) at which that income would have been taxed. Effectively, the deduction gives people a discount on their interest payment, and people with higher income get a bigger discount--why many on all sides object to this particular deduction.
– Rick Goldstein
53 mins ago
@RickGoldstein Thanks for feedback, edited to clarify that point.
– Hart CO
41 mins ago
3
3
Good answer. On (5), it might be worth clarifying that the number cited is not the "tax break". It's a reduction in taxable income, but the actual reduction in taxes is that amount times the marginal rate (or rates, if the deduction causes income to cross a bracket boundary) at which that income would have been taxed. Effectively, the deduction gives people a discount on their interest payment, and people with higher income get a bigger discount--why many on all sides object to this particular deduction.
– Rick Goldstein
53 mins ago
Good answer. On (5), it might be worth clarifying that the number cited is not the "tax break". It's a reduction in taxable income, but the actual reduction in taxes is that amount times the marginal rate (or rates, if the deduction causes income to cross a bracket boundary) at which that income would have been taxed. Effectively, the deduction gives people a discount on their interest payment, and people with higher income get a bigger discount--why many on all sides object to this particular deduction.
– Rick Goldstein
53 mins ago
@RickGoldstein Thanks for feedback, edited to clarify that point.
– Hart CO
41 mins ago
@RickGoldstein Thanks for feedback, edited to clarify that point.
– Hart CO
41 mins ago
add a comment |
It is as simple as picking which one of the two is larger -
(1) Your standard deduction, or
(2) The sum of all your itemized deductions, taking SALT cap into consideration
Obviously you would not do this unless that interest is $24,001 or more.
Especially for taxpayers with a mortgage, it is very common to own a property (the one they have the mortgage for) - in which case they are able to deduct (a portion of) their real estate tax.
For example, if I have $9000 in state and local taxes deduction, it is only sufficient for my mortgage interest to exceed $15000 for me to prefer itemizing deductions.
However, in my opinion, your are right about mortgage interest deduction only making a difference for people with either large mortgages (expensive houses), or perhaps the ones with lots of other itemized deductions (e.g., high healthcare costs). This appears in alignment with one of the stated goals of TCJA, which was to increase the ratio of taxpayers preferring taking standard deduction over itemizing.
answered 1 hour ago
void_ptrvoid_ptr
1,13249
add a comment |
It is as simple as picking which one of the two is larger -
(1) Your standard deduction, or
(2) The sum of all your itemized deductions, taking SALT cap into consideration
Obviously you would not do this unless that interest is $24,001 or more.
Especially for taxpayers with a mortgage, it is very common to own a property (the one they have the mortgage for) - in which case they are able to deduct (a portion of) their real estate tax.
For example, if I have $9000 in state and local taxes deduction, it is only sufficient for my mortgage interest to exceed $15000 for me to prefer itemizing deductions.
However, in my opinion, your are right about mortgage interest deduction only making a difference for people with either large mortgages (expensive houses), or perhaps the ones with lots of other itemized deductions (e.g., high healthcare costs). This appears in alignment with one of the stated goals of TCJA, which was to increase the ratio of taxpayers preferring taking standard deduction over itemizing.
answered 1 hour ago
void_ptrvoid_ptr
1,13249
add a comment |
It is as simple as picking which one of the two is larger -
(1) Your standard deduction, or
(2) The sum of all your itemized deductions, taking SALT cap into consideration
Obviously you would not do this unless that interest is $24,001 or more.
Especially for taxpayers with a mortgage, it is very common to own a property (the one they have the mortgage for) - in which case they are able to deduct (a portion of) their real estate tax.
For example, if I have $9000 in state and local taxes deduction, it is only sufficient for my mortgage interest to exceed $15000 for me to prefer itemizing deductions.
However, in my opinion, your are right about mortgage interest deduction only making a difference for people with either large mortgages (expensive houses), or perhaps the ones with lots of other itemized deductions (e.g., high healthcare costs). This appears in alignment with one of the stated goals of TCJA, which was to increase the ratio of taxpayers preferring taking standard deduction over itemizing.
answered 1 hour ago
void_ptrvoid_ptr
1,13249
It is as simple as picking which one of the two is larger -
(1) Your standard deduction, or
(2) The sum of all your itemized deductions, taking SALT cap into consideration
Obviously you would not do this unless that interest is $24,001 or more.
Especially for taxpayers with a mortgage, it is very common to own a property (the one they have the mortgage for) - in which case they are able to deduct (a portion of) their real estate tax.
For example, if I have $9000 in state and local taxes deduction, it is only sufficient for my mortgage interest to exceed $15000 for me to prefer itemizing deductions.
However, in my opinion, your are right about mortgage interest deduction only making a difference for people with either large mortgages (expensive houses), or perhaps the ones with lots of other itemized deductions (e.g., high healthcare costs). This appears in alignment with one of the stated goals of TCJA, which was to increase the ratio of taxpayers preferring taking standard deduction over itemizing.
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PS the headline is not meant to be political clickbait: I could not care less who does or doesn't pay taxes. I just don't understand that mechanism.
– Fattie
1 hour ago
And this concept doesn't extrapolate against the entire country. A lot of folks in CA and NY got big tax increases as a result of the tax cut's changes to the deductions for things like state taxes, property taxes and mortgage interest. Its the limitation on all of these things combined, not just mortgage interest. A lot of apartment dwelling silicon valley employees were itemizing previously due to state income tax...
– quid
1 hour ago