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Should you blow through the final approach course if the ATC forgot about you?

If there is a misprint on an instrument plate, is a pilot required to comply with it?When cleared for an approach and not on vectors, is a depicted course reversal always required?What is the procedure when being vectored for an approach and ATC allows you to pass through the final approach course?I accidentally deviated from an ATC instruction as a student pilot. How bad was it?Is it bad form to call “ready to depart” when you know you won't be cleared yet?Am I required to report entering the hold in lieu, persuant to the IFR mandatory reporting points?What are ATC's considerations when they instruct to intercept final approach course instead of simply clearing for approach?What is the sequence of ATC frequencies for final approach at JFK?Why would a pilot on final to a towered airport not speak up when ATC clears another aircraft to land on the same runway, without mentioning them?Does ATC prefer ILS over RNAV?

2

$begingroup$

So you were being vectored for the final approach course (ILS/RNAV/whatever) and the controller forgot about you for some reason (busy). Assume you called them and they were not replying. Also assume you were not yet cleared for the approach but they told you to assume the x approach. Would you blow through the final approach course and wait for them, even though you might conflict with traffic, or turn inbound even though you had not been cleared and potentially take a beating later?

air-traffic-control approach

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edited 6 hours ago

ymb1

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asked 7 hours ago

P kofmanP kofman

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add a comment | 

2

$begingroup$

So you were being vectored for the final approach course (ILS/RNAV/whatever) and the controller forgot about you for some reason (busy). Assume you called them and they were not replying. Also assume you were not yet cleared for the approach but they told you to assume the x approach. Would you blow through the final approach course and wait for them, even though you might conflict with traffic, or turn inbound even though you had not been cleared and potentially take a beating later?

air-traffic-control approach

share|improve this question

edited 6 hours ago

ymb1

65.6k6210348

asked 7 hours ago

P kofmanP kofman

262

New contributor

P kofman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

So you were being vectored for the final approach course (ILS/RNAV/whatever) and the controller forgot about you for some reason (busy). Assume you called them and they were not replying. Also assume you were not yet cleared for the approach but they told you to assume the x approach. Would you blow through the final approach course and wait for them, even though you might conflict with traffic, or turn inbound even though you had not been cleared and potentially take a beating later?

air-traffic-control approach

share|improve this question

edited 6 hours ago

ymb1

65.6k6210348

asked 7 hours ago

P kofmanP kofman

262

New contributor

P kofman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

$endgroup$

share|improve this question

edited 6 hours ago

ymb1

65.6k6210348

asked 7 hours ago

P kofmanP kofman

262

New contributor

P kofman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this question

edited 6 hours ago

ymb1

65.6k6210348

asked 7 hours ago

P kofmanP kofman

262

New contributor

P kofman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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edited 6 hours ago

ymb1

65.6k6210348

edited 6 hours ago

ymb1

65.6k6210348

asked 7 hours ago

P kofmanP kofman

262

New contributor

P kofman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

asked 7 hours ago

P kofmanP kofman

262

2 Answers
2

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7

$begingroup$

Yes, blow right through it. You should never deviate from a clearance to "take a beating" later simply because you think you know better than the controller. If the controller is busy it is for a reason, and it is very possible they are extending you on purpose for spacing. You could very well conflict with traffic even more by taking your own turn. It is far better to let them fix the overshoot they caused than to battle the FAA over a flight violation.

If you genuinely think the controller may have forgotten about you, you should continue to attempt contact, while pressing IDENT with each transmission. If it is so busy that you can't get a word in edgewise, press IDENT anyway. I have done this and received an immediate turn without even having to transmit on the radio. It is designed to get their attention, just don't overuse it.

The only exceptions where you should deviate from an assigned vector are if you are lost comm or have an emergency. In either case make sure you are squawking appropriately.

I would consider a vector towards terrain a pending emergency if not turned within some appropriate period of time. When I was instructing in the Navy, during simulator rides I would force a missed approach at McChord AFB, give a climb to 5000' and a left turn towards Mt Rainier. I would then fail the crew's radios. It was always a good lesson in terrain awareness, especially for young aviators from flat states.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Michael HallMichael Hall

1,247310

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  The Ident is really a good point, it could be a 7600 (transmit-only) situation.
  $endgroup$
  – ymb1
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Thanks. It was a technique I was taught early on in case you need to get their attention and it always seemed like a good idea to me. And a good way to acknowledge ATC when you can hear them, but not transmit. Actually, I think military radios have a selectable function where IDENT engages any time the mic is keyed. Good idea for a single pilot lost comm scenario to avoid having to take hands off the controls.
  $endgroup$
  – Michael Hall
  6 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

3

$begingroup$

It's an oddball situation because normally once you are put on a heading that will intercept final, the approach clearance is included with the heading instruction ("XXX, turn right heading YYY, cleared for the approach").

But lets say the controller actually just gave you a heading to final and nothing else, and you never heard from them again. The question becomes, is this a valid comm failure or not.

If it's a real comm failure, and you continue through the final approach course and just continue off to who knows where, what is the controller to do for separation of traffic? You are now like a horse that escaped the barn, and the controller now has no idea of where you are going next.

Assuming all efforts to raise ATC fail, you go to the basic IFR comm failure procedure and proceed logically based on the comm failure protocol; clearance, expected clearance, and all that. In this case it's pretty clear to expect the approach you are being vectored to.

So if it was me, I would be frantically trying to make contact but once I was convinced I had a real comm failure I'd select 7600 and just fly the approach.

Once ATC sees the 7600 selection, that's what the controller will expect me to do and will be able to adjust traffic flow to suit. That last thing to do in a comm failure situation in a terminal area is to head off in unexpected directions.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 5 hours ago

John KJohn K

18.9k12355

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

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7

$begingroup$

Yes, blow right through it. You should never deviate from a clearance to "take a beating" later simply because you think you know better than the controller. If the controller is busy it is for a reason, and it is very possible they are extending you on purpose for spacing. You could very well conflict with traffic even more by taking your own turn. It is far better to let them fix the overshoot they caused than to battle the FAA over a flight violation.

If you genuinely think the controller may have forgotten about you, you should continue to attempt contact, while pressing IDENT with each transmission. If it is so busy that you can't get a word in edgewise, press IDENT anyway. I have done this and received an immediate turn without even having to transmit on the radio. It is designed to get their attention, just don't overuse it.

The only exceptions where you should deviate from an assigned vector are if you are lost comm or have an emergency. In either case make sure you are squawking appropriately.

I would consider a vector towards terrain a pending emergency if not turned within some appropriate period of time. When I was instructing in the Navy, during simulator rides I would force a missed approach at McChord AFB, give a climb to 5000' and a left turn towards Mt Rainier. I would then fail the crew's radios. It was always a good lesson in terrain awareness, especially for young aviators from flat states.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Michael HallMichael Hall

1,247310

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  The Ident is really a good point, it could be a 7600 (transmit-only) situation.
  $endgroup$
  – ymb1
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Thanks. It was a technique I was taught early on in case you need to get their attention and it always seemed like a good idea to me. And a good way to acknowledge ATC when you can hear them, but not transmit. Actually, I think military radios have a selectable function where IDENT engages any time the mic is keyed. Good idea for a single pilot lost comm scenario to avoid having to take hands off the controls.
  $endgroup$
  – Michael Hall
  6 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

7

$begingroup$

Yes, blow right through it. You should never deviate from a clearance to "take a beating" later simply because you think you know better than the controller. If the controller is busy it is for a reason, and it is very possible they are extending you on purpose for spacing. You could very well conflict with traffic even more by taking your own turn. It is far better to let them fix the overshoot they caused than to battle the FAA over a flight violation.

If you genuinely think the controller may have forgotten about you, you should continue to attempt contact, while pressing IDENT with each transmission. If it is so busy that you can't get a word in edgewise, press IDENT anyway. I have done this and received an immediate turn without even having to transmit on the radio. It is designed to get their attention, just don't overuse it.

The only exceptions where you should deviate from an assigned vector are if you are lost comm or have an emergency. In either case make sure you are squawking appropriately.

I would consider a vector towards terrain a pending emergency if not turned within some appropriate period of time. When I was instructing in the Navy, during simulator rides I would force a missed approach at McChord AFB, give a climb to 5000' and a left turn towards Mt Rainier. I would then fail the crew's radios. It was always a good lesson in terrain awareness, especially for young aviators from flat states.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Michael HallMichael Hall

1,247310

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  The Ident is really a good point, it could be a 7600 (transmit-only) situation.
  $endgroup$
  – ymb1
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  Thanks. It was a technique I was taught early on in case you need to get their attention and it always seemed like a good idea to me. And a good way to acknowledge ATC when you can hear them, but not transmit. Actually, I think military radios have a selectable function where IDENT engages any time the mic is keyed. Good idea for a single pilot lost comm scenario to avoid having to take hands off the controls.
  $endgroup$
  – Michael Hall
  6 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

Yes, blow right through it. You should never deviate from a clearance to "take a beating" later simply because you think you know better than the controller. If the controller is busy it is for a reason, and it is very possible they are extending you on purpose for spacing. You could very well conflict with traffic even more by taking your own turn. It is far better to let them fix the overshoot they caused than to battle the FAA over a flight violation.

If you genuinely think the controller may have forgotten about you, you should continue to attempt contact, while pressing IDENT with each transmission. If it is so busy that you can't get a word in edgewise, press IDENT anyway. I have done this and received an immediate turn without even having to transmit on the radio. It is designed to get their attention, just don't overuse it.

The only exceptions where you should deviate from an assigned vector are if you are lost comm or have an emergency. In either case make sure you are squawking appropriately.

I would consider a vector towards terrain a pending emergency if not turned within some appropriate period of time. When I was instructing in the Navy, during simulator rides I would force a missed approach at McChord AFB, give a climb to 5000' and a left turn towards Mt Rainier. I would then fail the crew's radios. It was always a good lesson in terrain awareness, especially for young aviators from flat states.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Michael HallMichael Hall

1,247310

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 6 hours ago

Michael HallMichael Hall

1,247310

answered 6 hours ago

Michael HallMichael Hall

1,247310

answered 6 hours ago

Michael HallMichael Hall

1,247310

3

$begingroup$

It's an oddball situation because normally once you are put on a heading that will intercept final, the approach clearance is included with the heading instruction ("XXX, turn right heading YYY, cleared for the approach").

But lets say the controller actually just gave you a heading to final and nothing else, and you never heard from them again. The question becomes, is this a valid comm failure or not.

If it's a real comm failure, and you continue through the final approach course and just continue off to who knows where, what is the controller to do for separation of traffic? You are now like a horse that escaped the barn, and the controller now has no idea of where you are going next.

Assuming all efforts to raise ATC fail, you go to the basic IFR comm failure procedure and proceed logically based on the comm failure protocol; clearance, expected clearance, and all that. In this case it's pretty clear to expect the approach you are being vectored to.

So if it was me, I would be frantically trying to make contact but once I was convinced I had a real comm failure I'd select 7600 and just fly the approach.

Once ATC sees the 7600 selection, that's what the controller will expect me to do and will be able to adjust traffic flow to suit. That last thing to do in a comm failure situation in a terminal area is to head off in unexpected directions.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 5 hours ago

John KJohn K

18.9k12355

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

3

$begingroup$

It's an oddball situation because normally once you are put on a heading that will intercept final, the approach clearance is included with the heading instruction ("XXX, turn right heading YYY, cleared for the approach").

But lets say the controller actually just gave you a heading to final and nothing else, and you never heard from them again. The question becomes, is this a valid comm failure or not.

If it's a real comm failure, and you continue through the final approach course and just continue off to who knows where, what is the controller to do for separation of traffic? You are now like a horse that escaped the barn, and the controller now has no idea of where you are going next.

Assuming all efforts to raise ATC fail, you go to the basic IFR comm failure procedure and proceed logically based on the comm failure protocol; clearance, expected clearance, and all that. In this case it's pretty clear to expect the approach you are being vectored to.

So if it was me, I would be frantically trying to make contact but once I was convinced I had a real comm failure I'd select 7600 and just fly the approach.

Once ATC sees the 7600 selection, that's what the controller will expect me to do and will be able to adjust traffic flow to suit. That last thing to do in a comm failure situation in a terminal area is to head off in unexpected directions.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 5 hours ago

John KJohn K

18.9k12355

$endgroup$

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

It's an oddball situation because normally once you are put on a heading that will intercept final, the approach clearance is included with the heading instruction ("XXX, turn right heading YYY, cleared for the approach").

But lets say the controller actually just gave you a heading to final and nothing else, and you never heard from them again. The question becomes, is this a valid comm failure or not.

If it's a real comm failure, and you continue through the final approach course and just continue off to who knows where, what is the controller to do for separation of traffic? You are now like a horse that escaped the barn, and the controller now has no idea of where you are going next.

Assuming all efforts to raise ATC fail, you go to the basic IFR comm failure procedure and proceed logically based on the comm failure protocol; clearance, expected clearance, and all that. In this case it's pretty clear to expect the approach you are being vectored to.

So if it was me, I would be frantically trying to make contact but once I was convinced I had a real comm failure I'd select 7600 and just fly the approach.

Once ATC sees the 7600 selection, that's what the controller will expect me to do and will be able to adjust traffic flow to suit. That last thing to do in a comm failure situation in a terminal area is to head off in unexpected directions.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 5 hours ago

John KJohn K

18.9k12355

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 5 hours ago

John KJohn K

18.9k12355

answered 5 hours ago

John KJohn K

18.9k12355

answered 5 hours ago

John KJohn K

18.9k12355