Portent, as it relates to the Gambling downtime rules from Xanathar's Guide to EverythingHow to calculate...



Portent, as it relates to the Gambling downtime rules from Xanathar's Guide to Everything


How to calculate earnings for downtime buildings when the hero is away?Is a player character required to engage in downtime activity?Can the Portent ability of a Diviner Wizard negate a critical hit?How do you calculate the chance of failure when copying spells in Adventurers League?How does nondetection interact with School of Divination's Portent?In the “Buying Magic Items” downtime activity, can I roll on a more affordable table than my Charisma/Persuasion check would normally indicate?Portent vs Lucky Feat — which wins?Can you use Lucky (feat) followed by Portent to replace a roll that's already been made?Which downtime activities cover lifestyle expenses?How can my character start a thieves' guild without being disruptive to the rest of the group?













4












$begingroup$


The Gambling downtime rules in XGtE state that it takes the character a workweek (5 days) and a stake of between 10gp and 1000gp to partake in the gambling downtime activity.



The resolution of this activity (according to the XGtE rules) is three skill challenges are attempted by the player, against three randomly generated DCs (DC = 5+2d10 for each check).



Wizards of the Diviner School have the feature Portent which gives them:




When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.



Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls.




As the gambling downtime takes place over 5 days, the question arises over when exactly do these checks occur? Is it all on a single day, spead out over the 5 days?



This question is important, as it directly affects how much of the Portent ability is available for the player to use.



My instinct is to spread the checks over the 5 days, and use this method:




  1. Player declares in advance how much they want to gamble (their stake)

  2. The DM rolls a set of DCs for the three checks for each day (using the 5+2d10 method)

  3. The diviner would then roll their portent for each day, and choose one or more of the checks (if any) to use their portent on. They can also choose just to chance it and do any number of "regular" rolls on a given day.

  4. Passing or failing the check would be resolved by comparing the result of their roll(s) against the generated DCs for the day for the relevant checks.


    • If a check is failed or passed on a given day it is passed or failed for the whole session



  5. If by the end of the 5 days they still have outstanding checks left to complete, these would be resolved by straight ability check rolls against the "average" DC for the session (calculated for each skill using 5 + Average(DC/day - 5)). These checks would not be eligible targets for Portent as they are multi day checks.


Would this ruling be balanced (and/or exploitable)?



To be clear here, the houserule is the daily "sets" of DCs being generated and the "average" set at thee end, instead of the set XGtE makes out for the 5 day activity as a whole.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Just to clarify, the "roll a new DC for each check" is the literal requirement of the downtime rule. The way you've worded it makes it seem like a houserule you've decided to implement, and I just want to make sure you're aware that the way you're planning to do it is the way the rule expects you to do it.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Xirema, yes I'm aware of that, but I'll edit into the question. The houserule bit is to actually generate 5 sets of the three DCs (one set per "day" of the downtime), and then resolve what happens if there are any outstanding checks left at the end.
    $endgroup$
    – illustro
    4 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Oh, okay. Interesting.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago
















4












$begingroup$


The Gambling downtime rules in XGtE state that it takes the character a workweek (5 days) and a stake of between 10gp and 1000gp to partake in the gambling downtime activity.



The resolution of this activity (according to the XGtE rules) is three skill challenges are attempted by the player, against three randomly generated DCs (DC = 5+2d10 for each check).



Wizards of the Diviner School have the feature Portent which gives them:




When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.



Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls.




As the gambling downtime takes place over 5 days, the question arises over when exactly do these checks occur? Is it all on a single day, spead out over the 5 days?



This question is important, as it directly affects how much of the Portent ability is available for the player to use.



My instinct is to spread the checks over the 5 days, and use this method:




  1. Player declares in advance how much they want to gamble (their stake)

  2. The DM rolls a set of DCs for the three checks for each day (using the 5+2d10 method)

  3. The diviner would then roll their portent for each day, and choose one or more of the checks (if any) to use their portent on. They can also choose just to chance it and do any number of "regular" rolls on a given day.

  4. Passing or failing the check would be resolved by comparing the result of their roll(s) against the generated DCs for the day for the relevant checks.


    • If a check is failed or passed on a given day it is passed or failed for the whole session



  5. If by the end of the 5 days they still have outstanding checks left to complete, these would be resolved by straight ability check rolls against the "average" DC for the session (calculated for each skill using 5 + Average(DC/day - 5)). These checks would not be eligible targets for Portent as they are multi day checks.


Would this ruling be balanced (and/or exploitable)?



To be clear here, the houserule is the daily "sets" of DCs being generated and the "average" set at thee end, instead of the set XGtE makes out for the 5 day activity as a whole.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Just to clarify, the "roll a new DC for each check" is the literal requirement of the downtime rule. The way you've worded it makes it seem like a houserule you've decided to implement, and I just want to make sure you're aware that the way you're planning to do it is the way the rule expects you to do it.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Xirema, yes I'm aware of that, but I'll edit into the question. The houserule bit is to actually generate 5 sets of the three DCs (one set per "day" of the downtime), and then resolve what happens if there are any outstanding checks left at the end.
    $endgroup$
    – illustro
    4 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Oh, okay. Interesting.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago














4












4








4





$begingroup$


The Gambling downtime rules in XGtE state that it takes the character a workweek (5 days) and a stake of between 10gp and 1000gp to partake in the gambling downtime activity.



The resolution of this activity (according to the XGtE rules) is three skill challenges are attempted by the player, against three randomly generated DCs (DC = 5+2d10 for each check).



Wizards of the Diviner School have the feature Portent which gives them:




When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.



Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls.




As the gambling downtime takes place over 5 days, the question arises over when exactly do these checks occur? Is it all on a single day, spead out over the 5 days?



This question is important, as it directly affects how much of the Portent ability is available for the player to use.



My instinct is to spread the checks over the 5 days, and use this method:




  1. Player declares in advance how much they want to gamble (their stake)

  2. The DM rolls a set of DCs for the three checks for each day (using the 5+2d10 method)

  3. The diviner would then roll their portent for each day, and choose one or more of the checks (if any) to use their portent on. They can also choose just to chance it and do any number of "regular" rolls on a given day.

  4. Passing or failing the check would be resolved by comparing the result of their roll(s) against the generated DCs for the day for the relevant checks.


    • If a check is failed or passed on a given day it is passed or failed for the whole session



  5. If by the end of the 5 days they still have outstanding checks left to complete, these would be resolved by straight ability check rolls against the "average" DC for the session (calculated for each skill using 5 + Average(DC/day - 5)). These checks would not be eligible targets for Portent as they are multi day checks.


Would this ruling be balanced (and/or exploitable)?



To be clear here, the houserule is the daily "sets" of DCs being generated and the "average" set at thee end, instead of the set XGtE makes out for the 5 day activity as a whole.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




The Gambling downtime rules in XGtE state that it takes the character a workweek (5 days) and a stake of between 10gp and 1000gp to partake in the gambling downtime activity.



The resolution of this activity (according to the XGtE rules) is three skill challenges are attempted by the player, against three randomly generated DCs (DC = 5+2d10 for each check).



Wizards of the Diviner School have the feature Portent which gives them:




When you finish a long rest, roll two d20s and record the numbers rolled. You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll, and you can replace a roll in this way only once per turn.



Each foretelling roll can be used only once. When you finish a long rest, you lose any unused foretelling rolls.




As the gambling downtime takes place over 5 days, the question arises over when exactly do these checks occur? Is it all on a single day, spead out over the 5 days?



This question is important, as it directly affects how much of the Portent ability is available for the player to use.



My instinct is to spread the checks over the 5 days, and use this method:




  1. Player declares in advance how much they want to gamble (their stake)

  2. The DM rolls a set of DCs for the three checks for each day (using the 5+2d10 method)

  3. The diviner would then roll their portent for each day, and choose one or more of the checks (if any) to use their portent on. They can also choose just to chance it and do any number of "regular" rolls on a given day.

  4. Passing or failing the check would be resolved by comparing the result of their roll(s) against the generated DCs for the day for the relevant checks.


    • If a check is failed or passed on a given day it is passed or failed for the whole session



  5. If by the end of the 5 days they still have outstanding checks left to complete, these would be resolved by straight ability check rolls against the "average" DC for the session (calculated for each skill using 5 + Average(DC/day - 5)). These checks would not be eligible targets for Portent as they are multi day checks.


Would this ruling be balanced (and/or exploitable)?



To be clear here, the houserule is the daily "sets" of DCs being generated and the "average" set at thee end, instead of the set XGtE makes out for the 5 day activity as a whole.







dnd-5e wizard downtime divination






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 4 hours ago







illustro

















asked 5 hours ago









illustroillustro

7,00821963




7,00821963








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Just to clarify, the "roll a new DC for each check" is the literal requirement of the downtime rule. The way you've worded it makes it seem like a houserule you've decided to implement, and I just want to make sure you're aware that the way you're planning to do it is the way the rule expects you to do it.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Xirema, yes I'm aware of that, but I'll edit into the question. The houserule bit is to actually generate 5 sets of the three DCs (one set per "day" of the downtime), and then resolve what happens if there are any outstanding checks left at the end.
    $endgroup$
    – illustro
    4 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Oh, okay. Interesting.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Just to clarify, the "roll a new DC for each check" is the literal requirement of the downtime rule. The way you've worded it makes it seem like a houserule you've decided to implement, and I just want to make sure you're aware that the way you're planning to do it is the way the rule expects you to do it.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Xirema, yes I'm aware of that, but I'll edit into the question. The houserule bit is to actually generate 5 sets of the three DCs (one set per "day" of the downtime), and then resolve what happens if there are any outstanding checks left at the end.
    $endgroup$
    – illustro
    4 hours ago












  • $begingroup$
    Oh, okay. Interesting.
    $endgroup$
    – Xirema
    4 hours ago








1




1




$begingroup$
Just to clarify, the "roll a new DC for each check" is the literal requirement of the downtime rule. The way you've worded it makes it seem like a houserule you've decided to implement, and I just want to make sure you're aware that the way you're planning to do it is the way the rule expects you to do it.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
Just to clarify, the "roll a new DC for each check" is the literal requirement of the downtime rule. The way you've worded it makes it seem like a houserule you've decided to implement, and I just want to make sure you're aware that the way you're planning to do it is the way the rule expects you to do it.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
4 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
@Xirema, yes I'm aware of that, but I'll edit into the question. The houserule bit is to actually generate 5 sets of the three DCs (one set per "day" of the downtime), and then resolve what happens if there are any outstanding checks left at the end.
$endgroup$
– illustro
4 hours ago






$begingroup$
@Xirema, yes I'm aware of that, but I'll edit into the question. The houserule bit is to actually generate 5 sets of the three DCs (one set per "day" of the downtime), and then resolve what happens if there are any outstanding checks left at the end.
$endgroup$
– illustro
4 hours ago














$begingroup$
Oh, okay. Interesting.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
Oh, okay. Interesting.
$endgroup$
– Xirema
4 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















5












$begingroup$

That ruling heavily favors the diviner



When you're rolling DCs privately and randomly, this has no real effect on the player's choices. Because I have no information on what you've rolled behind the DM screen, it does not affect my actions. As such, we'll ignore the randomness of the DC and just focus on the wizard's side.



Assuming level 2 divination wizard, they will have 2 foretelling rolls per day, totalling 10 rolls over the 5 days. Because you allow them to forgo making any checks on a day they don't like their Portent chances, this is only slightly worse than "roll 10 take highest 3" (it's slightly worse because if you get 15s one day and forgo the check in the hopes of something higher, you can't go back to 15). This kind of selection is very strong.



This is not to say it's unbalanced, because you as the DM set what happens. If you're in a setting where magic is normal, people might know exactly what diviners can do, and even if you aren't, consistently "lucky" hands will tip off anyone that pays attention.



You might represent this as a higher than 10 percent chance to run into a gambling complication, or the overriding of a chance, and you just say "it happens."



However,



When you make the checks isn't clear



So your ruling is as valid as any, because it's left up to DM purview.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    If they fail a roll on one of the days, they fail that check entirely (ie they don't get to try it again on a later day)
    $endgroup$
    – illustro
    4 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    It's worth noting that a Diviner wizard would likely be VERY good at betting, especially on larger, single-event games, like horse racing. It would not surprise me if many unscrupulous bookies went adventuring for "two levels" just to learn the Portent ability.
    $endgroup$
    – goodguy5
    4 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    They are also not limited to one roll per day either, they can choose to do two (or indeed all three) of the checks on a given day should they wish
    $endgroup$
    – illustro
    4 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    The way the gambling rules work is there are three checks (Insight, Deception & Intimidation) that need to be made throughout the course of the 5 day period. The DCs for those checks are generated randomly (5 + 2d10). Under my proposed ruling the DM would generate a set of DCs for each day. On a given day, the result of a chosen roll for a chosen check is compared to the DC. If they fail to meet the DC that check is failed for the whole session. Using portent would allow them to be certain about the total of their roll, but not whether or not they will pass the check.
    $endgroup$
    – illustro
    4 hours ago








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    +1 for noting the non-mechanical aspect of diviners being part of the world. It is easy to overlook consequences not stated in the game mechanics.
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    4 hours ago



















4












$begingroup$

The abstractions break here



You are in a situation where the abstraction that is the downtime gambling rules hit against the abstraction that is powers usable only at certain frequency. This is what happens when any associated rule is stretched far enough.



When the abstractions break, the solution is to look at the fiction and represent the effect in a different way.



Here, gambling over a long time period is represented by a series of dice rolls. It is not true that the dice rolls happens at particular points in fictional time; rather, they are a way of representing something on a coarser scale than what the rules otherwise default to.



Look at the fiction



Consider, together with the group, what is a reasonable edge the diviner wizard would have in games that are partially of chance, and how would you go ahead representing that mechanically.



The game has a default solution for when this is the case - the character gets advantage. So, unless you have a particular reason to do something else, just give the character advantage and be done with it.



If making or losing money by gambling turns out to be central to the game, build a more elaborate set of rules for it, and build them so that they handle situations on the scale of days, so that the abstraction of gambling and the abstraction of long rests do not clash. But most games would manage without.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    This. The downtime gambling rules assume that you're gambling legitimately, and the consequences are limited to gaining or losing X amount of money per day. Cheating at gambling has much more volatile outcomes, and should be played out at the table.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Wells
    13 mins ago



















3












$begingroup$

Whether the checks occur all on the same day or on different days is up to DM fiat.



Buuuuut..... It might be pretty strange, narratively speaking, if each check all occurred on the same day, yet the downtime activity still occupied a full week. Strictly RAW, you're allowed to space out the checks however you like, but for the sake of narrative cohesion, it may be appropriate to have these checks occur on different days.



As a result, the Wizard would be able to reroll their Portent Dice each day, and would gain the opportunity to use their portent dice on each of these checks.



As DM, you can allow them to make all three checks on the same day if they get lucky with their portents (and want to risk it on the last one), but if it were me, I'd not allow the player to "defer"/"expedite" those checks; the Portent feature is already a powerful advantage on these checks, and giving the player the freedom to wait until they get especially good Portent rolls is going to make their gambling ability especially powerful.



Of course, a lot of this depends on how important the Gold Economy is in your campaign. If a character being able to nearly guarantee earnings of 1k gold per workweek is not a big deal, then you can do whatever is most convenient for the player without too much issue. It makes narrative sense for a Divination Wizard to be uncannily good at Gambling, so while the ability to earn a lot of gold very quickly for relatively minimal risk is a powerful feature, it does make narrative sense, and if you're not worried about exploitability, then you can structure the rules in whatever form is most convenient for the player.






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    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

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    active

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    votes






    active

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    5












    $begingroup$

    That ruling heavily favors the diviner



    When you're rolling DCs privately and randomly, this has no real effect on the player's choices. Because I have no information on what you've rolled behind the DM screen, it does not affect my actions. As such, we'll ignore the randomness of the DC and just focus on the wizard's side.



    Assuming level 2 divination wizard, they will have 2 foretelling rolls per day, totalling 10 rolls over the 5 days. Because you allow them to forgo making any checks on a day they don't like their Portent chances, this is only slightly worse than "roll 10 take highest 3" (it's slightly worse because if you get 15s one day and forgo the check in the hopes of something higher, you can't go back to 15). This kind of selection is very strong.



    This is not to say it's unbalanced, because you as the DM set what happens. If you're in a setting where magic is normal, people might know exactly what diviners can do, and even if you aren't, consistently "lucky" hands will tip off anyone that pays attention.



    You might represent this as a higher than 10 percent chance to run into a gambling complication, or the overriding of a chance, and you just say "it happens."



    However,



    When you make the checks isn't clear



    So your ruling is as valid as any, because it's left up to DM purview.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      If they fail a roll on one of the days, they fail that check entirely (ie they don't get to try it again on a later day)
      $endgroup$
      – illustro
      4 hours ago






    • 3




      $begingroup$
      It's worth noting that a Diviner wizard would likely be VERY good at betting, especially on larger, single-event games, like horse racing. It would not surprise me if many unscrupulous bookies went adventuring for "two levels" just to learn the Portent ability.
      $endgroup$
      – goodguy5
      4 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      They are also not limited to one roll per day either, they can choose to do two (or indeed all three) of the checks on a given day should they wish
      $endgroup$
      – illustro
      4 hours ago








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      The way the gambling rules work is there are three checks (Insight, Deception & Intimidation) that need to be made throughout the course of the 5 day period. The DCs for those checks are generated randomly (5 + 2d10). Under my proposed ruling the DM would generate a set of DCs for each day. On a given day, the result of a chosen roll for a chosen check is compared to the DC. If they fail to meet the DC that check is failed for the whole session. Using portent would allow them to be certain about the total of their roll, but not whether or not they will pass the check.
      $endgroup$
      – illustro
      4 hours ago








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      +1 for noting the non-mechanical aspect of diviners being part of the world. It is easy to overlook consequences not stated in the game mechanics.
      $endgroup$
      – Mołot
      4 hours ago
















    5












    $begingroup$

    That ruling heavily favors the diviner



    When you're rolling DCs privately and randomly, this has no real effect on the player's choices. Because I have no information on what you've rolled behind the DM screen, it does not affect my actions. As such, we'll ignore the randomness of the DC and just focus on the wizard's side.



    Assuming level 2 divination wizard, they will have 2 foretelling rolls per day, totalling 10 rolls over the 5 days. Because you allow them to forgo making any checks on a day they don't like their Portent chances, this is only slightly worse than "roll 10 take highest 3" (it's slightly worse because if you get 15s one day and forgo the check in the hopes of something higher, you can't go back to 15). This kind of selection is very strong.



    This is not to say it's unbalanced, because you as the DM set what happens. If you're in a setting where magic is normal, people might know exactly what diviners can do, and even if you aren't, consistently "lucky" hands will tip off anyone that pays attention.



    You might represent this as a higher than 10 percent chance to run into a gambling complication, or the overriding of a chance, and you just say "it happens."



    However,



    When you make the checks isn't clear



    So your ruling is as valid as any, because it's left up to DM purview.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      If they fail a roll on one of the days, they fail that check entirely (ie they don't get to try it again on a later day)
      $endgroup$
      – illustro
      4 hours ago






    • 3




      $begingroup$
      It's worth noting that a Diviner wizard would likely be VERY good at betting, especially on larger, single-event games, like horse racing. It would not surprise me if many unscrupulous bookies went adventuring for "two levels" just to learn the Portent ability.
      $endgroup$
      – goodguy5
      4 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      They are also not limited to one roll per day either, they can choose to do two (or indeed all three) of the checks on a given day should they wish
      $endgroup$
      – illustro
      4 hours ago








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      The way the gambling rules work is there are three checks (Insight, Deception & Intimidation) that need to be made throughout the course of the 5 day period. The DCs for those checks are generated randomly (5 + 2d10). Under my proposed ruling the DM would generate a set of DCs for each day. On a given day, the result of a chosen roll for a chosen check is compared to the DC. If they fail to meet the DC that check is failed for the whole session. Using portent would allow them to be certain about the total of their roll, but not whether or not they will pass the check.
      $endgroup$
      – illustro
      4 hours ago








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      +1 for noting the non-mechanical aspect of diviners being part of the world. It is easy to overlook consequences not stated in the game mechanics.
      $endgroup$
      – Mołot
      4 hours ago














    5












    5








    5





    $begingroup$

    That ruling heavily favors the diviner



    When you're rolling DCs privately and randomly, this has no real effect on the player's choices. Because I have no information on what you've rolled behind the DM screen, it does not affect my actions. As such, we'll ignore the randomness of the DC and just focus on the wizard's side.



    Assuming level 2 divination wizard, they will have 2 foretelling rolls per day, totalling 10 rolls over the 5 days. Because you allow them to forgo making any checks on a day they don't like their Portent chances, this is only slightly worse than "roll 10 take highest 3" (it's slightly worse because if you get 15s one day and forgo the check in the hopes of something higher, you can't go back to 15). This kind of selection is very strong.



    This is not to say it's unbalanced, because you as the DM set what happens. If you're in a setting where magic is normal, people might know exactly what diviners can do, and even if you aren't, consistently "lucky" hands will tip off anyone that pays attention.



    You might represent this as a higher than 10 percent chance to run into a gambling complication, or the overriding of a chance, and you just say "it happens."



    However,



    When you make the checks isn't clear



    So your ruling is as valid as any, because it's left up to DM purview.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    That ruling heavily favors the diviner



    When you're rolling DCs privately and randomly, this has no real effect on the player's choices. Because I have no information on what you've rolled behind the DM screen, it does not affect my actions. As such, we'll ignore the randomness of the DC and just focus on the wizard's side.



    Assuming level 2 divination wizard, they will have 2 foretelling rolls per day, totalling 10 rolls over the 5 days. Because you allow them to forgo making any checks on a day they don't like their Portent chances, this is only slightly worse than "roll 10 take highest 3" (it's slightly worse because if you get 15s one day and forgo the check in the hopes of something higher, you can't go back to 15). This kind of selection is very strong.



    This is not to say it's unbalanced, because you as the DM set what happens. If you're in a setting where magic is normal, people might know exactly what diviners can do, and even if you aren't, consistently "lucky" hands will tip off anyone that pays attention.



    You might represent this as a higher than 10 percent chance to run into a gambling complication, or the overriding of a chance, and you just say "it happens."



    However,



    When you make the checks isn't clear



    So your ruling is as valid as any, because it's left up to DM purview.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited 2 hours ago









    V2Blast

    23k374144




    23k374144










    answered 4 hours ago









    Blake SteelBlake Steel

    2,168329




    2,168329












    • $begingroup$
      If they fail a roll on one of the days, they fail that check entirely (ie they don't get to try it again on a later day)
      $endgroup$
      – illustro
      4 hours ago






    • 3




      $begingroup$
      It's worth noting that a Diviner wizard would likely be VERY good at betting, especially on larger, single-event games, like horse racing. It would not surprise me if many unscrupulous bookies went adventuring for "two levels" just to learn the Portent ability.
      $endgroup$
      – goodguy5
      4 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      They are also not limited to one roll per day either, they can choose to do two (or indeed all three) of the checks on a given day should they wish
      $endgroup$
      – illustro
      4 hours ago








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      The way the gambling rules work is there are three checks (Insight, Deception & Intimidation) that need to be made throughout the course of the 5 day period. The DCs for those checks are generated randomly (5 + 2d10). Under my proposed ruling the DM would generate a set of DCs for each day. On a given day, the result of a chosen roll for a chosen check is compared to the DC. If they fail to meet the DC that check is failed for the whole session. Using portent would allow them to be certain about the total of their roll, but not whether or not they will pass the check.
      $endgroup$
      – illustro
      4 hours ago








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      +1 for noting the non-mechanical aspect of diviners being part of the world. It is easy to overlook consequences not stated in the game mechanics.
      $endgroup$
      – Mołot
      4 hours ago


















    • $begingroup$
      If they fail a roll on one of the days, they fail that check entirely (ie they don't get to try it again on a later day)
      $endgroup$
      – illustro
      4 hours ago






    • 3




      $begingroup$
      It's worth noting that a Diviner wizard would likely be VERY good at betting, especially on larger, single-event games, like horse racing. It would not surprise me if many unscrupulous bookies went adventuring for "two levels" just to learn the Portent ability.
      $endgroup$
      – goodguy5
      4 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      They are also not limited to one roll per day either, they can choose to do two (or indeed all three) of the checks on a given day should they wish
      $endgroup$
      – illustro
      4 hours ago








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      The way the gambling rules work is there are three checks (Insight, Deception & Intimidation) that need to be made throughout the course of the 5 day period. The DCs for those checks are generated randomly (5 + 2d10). Under my proposed ruling the DM would generate a set of DCs for each day. On a given day, the result of a chosen roll for a chosen check is compared to the DC. If they fail to meet the DC that check is failed for the whole session. Using portent would allow them to be certain about the total of their roll, but not whether or not they will pass the check.
      $endgroup$
      – illustro
      4 hours ago








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      +1 for noting the non-mechanical aspect of diviners being part of the world. It is easy to overlook consequences not stated in the game mechanics.
      $endgroup$
      – Mołot
      4 hours ago
















    $begingroup$
    If they fail a roll on one of the days, they fail that check entirely (ie they don't get to try it again on a later day)
    $endgroup$
    – illustro
    4 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    If they fail a roll on one of the days, they fail that check entirely (ie they don't get to try it again on a later day)
    $endgroup$
    – illustro
    4 hours ago




    3




    3




    $begingroup$
    It's worth noting that a Diviner wizard would likely be VERY good at betting, especially on larger, single-event games, like horse racing. It would not surprise me if many unscrupulous bookies went adventuring for "two levels" just to learn the Portent ability.
    $endgroup$
    – goodguy5
    4 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    It's worth noting that a Diviner wizard would likely be VERY good at betting, especially on larger, single-event games, like horse racing. It would not surprise me if many unscrupulous bookies went adventuring for "two levels" just to learn the Portent ability.
    $endgroup$
    – goodguy5
    4 hours ago












    $begingroup$
    They are also not limited to one roll per day either, they can choose to do two (or indeed all three) of the checks on a given day should they wish
    $endgroup$
    – illustro
    4 hours ago






    $begingroup$
    They are also not limited to one roll per day either, they can choose to do two (or indeed all three) of the checks on a given day should they wish
    $endgroup$
    – illustro
    4 hours ago






    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    The way the gambling rules work is there are three checks (Insight, Deception & Intimidation) that need to be made throughout the course of the 5 day period. The DCs for those checks are generated randomly (5 + 2d10). Under my proposed ruling the DM would generate a set of DCs for each day. On a given day, the result of a chosen roll for a chosen check is compared to the DC. If they fail to meet the DC that check is failed for the whole session. Using portent would allow them to be certain about the total of their roll, but not whether or not they will pass the check.
    $endgroup$
    – illustro
    4 hours ago






    $begingroup$
    The way the gambling rules work is there are three checks (Insight, Deception & Intimidation) that need to be made throughout the course of the 5 day period. The DCs for those checks are generated randomly (5 + 2d10). Under my proposed ruling the DM would generate a set of DCs for each day. On a given day, the result of a chosen roll for a chosen check is compared to the DC. If they fail to meet the DC that check is failed for the whole session. Using portent would allow them to be certain about the total of their roll, but not whether or not they will pass the check.
    $endgroup$
    – illustro
    4 hours ago






    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    +1 for noting the non-mechanical aspect of diviners being part of the world. It is easy to overlook consequences not stated in the game mechanics.
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    4 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    +1 for noting the non-mechanical aspect of diviners being part of the world. It is easy to overlook consequences not stated in the game mechanics.
    $endgroup$
    – Mołot
    4 hours ago













    4












    $begingroup$

    The abstractions break here



    You are in a situation where the abstraction that is the downtime gambling rules hit against the abstraction that is powers usable only at certain frequency. This is what happens when any associated rule is stretched far enough.



    When the abstractions break, the solution is to look at the fiction and represent the effect in a different way.



    Here, gambling over a long time period is represented by a series of dice rolls. It is not true that the dice rolls happens at particular points in fictional time; rather, they are a way of representing something on a coarser scale than what the rules otherwise default to.



    Look at the fiction



    Consider, together with the group, what is a reasonable edge the diviner wizard would have in games that are partially of chance, and how would you go ahead representing that mechanically.



    The game has a default solution for when this is the case - the character gets advantage. So, unless you have a particular reason to do something else, just give the character advantage and be done with it.



    If making or losing money by gambling turns out to be central to the game, build a more elaborate set of rules for it, and build them so that they handle situations on the scale of days, so that the abstraction of gambling and the abstraction of long rests do not clash. But most games would manage without.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 1




      $begingroup$
      This. The downtime gambling rules assume that you're gambling legitimately, and the consequences are limited to gaining or losing X amount of money per day. Cheating at gambling has much more volatile outcomes, and should be played out at the table.
      $endgroup$
      – Mark Wells
      13 mins ago
















    4












    $begingroup$

    The abstractions break here



    You are in a situation where the abstraction that is the downtime gambling rules hit against the abstraction that is powers usable only at certain frequency. This is what happens when any associated rule is stretched far enough.



    When the abstractions break, the solution is to look at the fiction and represent the effect in a different way.



    Here, gambling over a long time period is represented by a series of dice rolls. It is not true that the dice rolls happens at particular points in fictional time; rather, they are a way of representing something on a coarser scale than what the rules otherwise default to.



    Look at the fiction



    Consider, together with the group, what is a reasonable edge the diviner wizard would have in games that are partially of chance, and how would you go ahead representing that mechanically.



    The game has a default solution for when this is the case - the character gets advantage. So, unless you have a particular reason to do something else, just give the character advantage and be done with it.



    If making or losing money by gambling turns out to be central to the game, build a more elaborate set of rules for it, and build them so that they handle situations on the scale of days, so that the abstraction of gambling and the abstraction of long rests do not clash. But most games would manage without.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 1




      $begingroup$
      This. The downtime gambling rules assume that you're gambling legitimately, and the consequences are limited to gaining or losing X amount of money per day. Cheating at gambling has much more volatile outcomes, and should be played out at the table.
      $endgroup$
      – Mark Wells
      13 mins ago














    4












    4








    4





    $begingroup$

    The abstractions break here



    You are in a situation where the abstraction that is the downtime gambling rules hit against the abstraction that is powers usable only at certain frequency. This is what happens when any associated rule is stretched far enough.



    When the abstractions break, the solution is to look at the fiction and represent the effect in a different way.



    Here, gambling over a long time period is represented by a series of dice rolls. It is not true that the dice rolls happens at particular points in fictional time; rather, they are a way of representing something on a coarser scale than what the rules otherwise default to.



    Look at the fiction



    Consider, together with the group, what is a reasonable edge the diviner wizard would have in games that are partially of chance, and how would you go ahead representing that mechanically.



    The game has a default solution for when this is the case - the character gets advantage. So, unless you have a particular reason to do something else, just give the character advantage and be done with it.



    If making or losing money by gambling turns out to be central to the game, build a more elaborate set of rules for it, and build them so that they handle situations on the scale of days, so that the abstraction of gambling and the abstraction of long rests do not clash. But most games would manage without.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    The abstractions break here



    You are in a situation where the abstraction that is the downtime gambling rules hit against the abstraction that is powers usable only at certain frequency. This is what happens when any associated rule is stretched far enough.



    When the abstractions break, the solution is to look at the fiction and represent the effect in a different way.



    Here, gambling over a long time period is represented by a series of dice rolls. It is not true that the dice rolls happens at particular points in fictional time; rather, they are a way of representing something on a coarser scale than what the rules otherwise default to.



    Look at the fiction



    Consider, together with the group, what is a reasonable edge the diviner wizard would have in games that are partially of chance, and how would you go ahead representing that mechanically.



    The game has a default solution for when this is the case - the character gets advantage. So, unless you have a particular reason to do something else, just give the character advantage and be done with it.



    If making or losing money by gambling turns out to be central to the game, build a more elaborate set of rules for it, and build them so that they handle situations on the scale of days, so that the abstraction of gambling and the abstraction of long rests do not clash. But most games would manage without.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 44 mins ago









    ThanuirThanuir

    4,96632359




    4,96632359








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      This. The downtime gambling rules assume that you're gambling legitimately, and the consequences are limited to gaining or losing X amount of money per day. Cheating at gambling has much more volatile outcomes, and should be played out at the table.
      $endgroup$
      – Mark Wells
      13 mins ago














    • 1




      $begingroup$
      This. The downtime gambling rules assume that you're gambling legitimately, and the consequences are limited to gaining or losing X amount of money per day. Cheating at gambling has much more volatile outcomes, and should be played out at the table.
      $endgroup$
      – Mark Wells
      13 mins ago








    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    This. The downtime gambling rules assume that you're gambling legitimately, and the consequences are limited to gaining or losing X amount of money per day. Cheating at gambling has much more volatile outcomes, and should be played out at the table.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Wells
    13 mins ago




    $begingroup$
    This. The downtime gambling rules assume that you're gambling legitimately, and the consequences are limited to gaining or losing X amount of money per day. Cheating at gambling has much more volatile outcomes, and should be played out at the table.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Wells
    13 mins ago











    3












    $begingroup$

    Whether the checks occur all on the same day or on different days is up to DM fiat.



    Buuuuut..... It might be pretty strange, narratively speaking, if each check all occurred on the same day, yet the downtime activity still occupied a full week. Strictly RAW, you're allowed to space out the checks however you like, but for the sake of narrative cohesion, it may be appropriate to have these checks occur on different days.



    As a result, the Wizard would be able to reroll their Portent Dice each day, and would gain the opportunity to use their portent dice on each of these checks.



    As DM, you can allow them to make all three checks on the same day if they get lucky with their portents (and want to risk it on the last one), but if it were me, I'd not allow the player to "defer"/"expedite" those checks; the Portent feature is already a powerful advantage on these checks, and giving the player the freedom to wait until they get especially good Portent rolls is going to make their gambling ability especially powerful.



    Of course, a lot of this depends on how important the Gold Economy is in your campaign. If a character being able to nearly guarantee earnings of 1k gold per workweek is not a big deal, then you can do whatever is most convenient for the player without too much issue. It makes narrative sense for a Divination Wizard to be uncannily good at Gambling, so while the ability to earn a lot of gold very quickly for relatively minimal risk is a powerful feature, it does make narrative sense, and if you're not worried about exploitability, then you can structure the rules in whatever form is most convenient for the player.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      3












      $begingroup$

      Whether the checks occur all on the same day or on different days is up to DM fiat.



      Buuuuut..... It might be pretty strange, narratively speaking, if each check all occurred on the same day, yet the downtime activity still occupied a full week. Strictly RAW, you're allowed to space out the checks however you like, but for the sake of narrative cohesion, it may be appropriate to have these checks occur on different days.



      As a result, the Wizard would be able to reroll their Portent Dice each day, and would gain the opportunity to use their portent dice on each of these checks.



      As DM, you can allow them to make all three checks on the same day if they get lucky with their portents (and want to risk it on the last one), but if it were me, I'd not allow the player to "defer"/"expedite" those checks; the Portent feature is already a powerful advantage on these checks, and giving the player the freedom to wait until they get especially good Portent rolls is going to make their gambling ability especially powerful.



      Of course, a lot of this depends on how important the Gold Economy is in your campaign. If a character being able to nearly guarantee earnings of 1k gold per workweek is not a big deal, then you can do whatever is most convenient for the player without too much issue. It makes narrative sense for a Divination Wizard to be uncannily good at Gambling, so while the ability to earn a lot of gold very quickly for relatively minimal risk is a powerful feature, it does make narrative sense, and if you're not worried about exploitability, then you can structure the rules in whatever form is most convenient for the player.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        3












        3








        3





        $begingroup$

        Whether the checks occur all on the same day or on different days is up to DM fiat.



        Buuuuut..... It might be pretty strange, narratively speaking, if each check all occurred on the same day, yet the downtime activity still occupied a full week. Strictly RAW, you're allowed to space out the checks however you like, but for the sake of narrative cohesion, it may be appropriate to have these checks occur on different days.



        As a result, the Wizard would be able to reroll their Portent Dice each day, and would gain the opportunity to use their portent dice on each of these checks.



        As DM, you can allow them to make all three checks on the same day if they get lucky with their portents (and want to risk it on the last one), but if it were me, I'd not allow the player to "defer"/"expedite" those checks; the Portent feature is already a powerful advantage on these checks, and giving the player the freedom to wait until they get especially good Portent rolls is going to make their gambling ability especially powerful.



        Of course, a lot of this depends on how important the Gold Economy is in your campaign. If a character being able to nearly guarantee earnings of 1k gold per workweek is not a big deal, then you can do whatever is most convenient for the player without too much issue. It makes narrative sense for a Divination Wizard to be uncannily good at Gambling, so while the ability to earn a lot of gold very quickly for relatively minimal risk is a powerful feature, it does make narrative sense, and if you're not worried about exploitability, then you can structure the rules in whatever form is most convenient for the player.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        Whether the checks occur all on the same day or on different days is up to DM fiat.



        Buuuuut..... It might be pretty strange, narratively speaking, if each check all occurred on the same day, yet the downtime activity still occupied a full week. Strictly RAW, you're allowed to space out the checks however you like, but for the sake of narrative cohesion, it may be appropriate to have these checks occur on different days.



        As a result, the Wizard would be able to reroll their Portent Dice each day, and would gain the opportunity to use their portent dice on each of these checks.



        As DM, you can allow them to make all three checks on the same day if they get lucky with their portents (and want to risk it on the last one), but if it were me, I'd not allow the player to "defer"/"expedite" those checks; the Portent feature is already a powerful advantage on these checks, and giving the player the freedom to wait until they get especially good Portent rolls is going to make their gambling ability especially powerful.



        Of course, a lot of this depends on how important the Gold Economy is in your campaign. If a character being able to nearly guarantee earnings of 1k gold per workweek is not a big deal, then you can do whatever is most convenient for the player without too much issue. It makes narrative sense for a Divination Wizard to be uncannily good at Gambling, so while the ability to earn a lot of gold very quickly for relatively minimal risk is a powerful feature, it does make narrative sense, and if you're not worried about exploitability, then you can structure the rules in whatever form is most convenient for the player.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 4 hours ago









        XiremaXirema

        19.6k254113




        19.6k254113






























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