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Are there historical references that show that “diatonic” is a version of 'di-tonic' meaning 'two tonics'?

Are there in-depth music theory books that can serve as a compendium?What is the full list of possible chord names? Are there chords that don't have a name in chord theory?General procedure for determining the name of an interval given a major key / diatonic collectionWhat does it mean when there are two time signaturesWhy are there only five diatonic scale forms if there are 7 modes? not including hypo- modesWhat's significant about diatonic scales? Are there equivalents to the diatonic scales in smaller divisions of the octave (e.g. 19-EDO, 31-EDO, etc.)?Why are there only N scales and 12 notes values that can be root noteIs there a name for each of the two chords that form a cadence?Are there any cases that a minor triad can be a dominant chord?Borrowed Chords

2

Wikipedia says that "diatonic" refers to a whole note scale or a scale with seven pitched per octave.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_and_chromatic

But my take is that the major and minor scale are built from five-note groupings with the intervals of WWHW and WHWW ... which is another way of saying that keys are built in fifths C-G-D-A etc. because C and G (I and V) are the most consonant notes ... the G is the 'secondary tonic'.

This is also the position of a music theory website ...

http://www.historyofmusictheory.com/?page_id=158 which states...

"This second tonic or “Di-tonic” which phonetically can be argued that this was the original meaning of “Dia-tonic” (Two tonics root and 5th producing the Hypo(dual tonic/di-tonic) scales as opposed to the common “Diatonic” naming convention."

But there is no historical reference here.

Is there an actual historical reference to our phonetic speculations that diatonic really means 'di-tonic'?

theory history

share|improve this question

asked 7 hours ago

Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman

390210

• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Reputable dictionaries show the etymology with dia- without exception, so the burden of proof is on the website. At any rate, it is not etymology that will validate an unconventional theory, but whether it is useful.
  
  – replete
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

2

Wikipedia says that "diatonic" refers to a whole note scale or a scale with seven pitched per octave.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_and_chromatic

But my take is that the major and minor scale are built from five-note groupings with the intervals of WWHW and WHWW ... which is another way of saying that keys are built in fifths C-G-D-A etc. because C and G (I and V) are the most consonant notes ... the G is the 'secondary tonic'.

This is also the position of a music theory website ...

http://www.historyofmusictheory.com/?page_id=158 which states...

"This second tonic or “Di-tonic” which phonetically can be argued that this was the original meaning of “Dia-tonic” (Two tonics root and 5th producing the Hypo(dual tonic/di-tonic) scales as opposed to the common “Diatonic” naming convention."

But there is no historical reference here.

Is there an actual historical reference to our phonetic speculations that diatonic really means 'di-tonic'?

theory history

share|improve this question

asked 7 hours ago

Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman

390210

• 
  
  
  

  
  4
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Reputable dictionaries show the etymology with dia- without exception, so the burden of proof is on the website. At any rate, it is not etymology that will validate an unconventional theory, but whether it is useful.
  
  – replete
  6 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

Wikipedia says that "diatonic" refers to a whole note scale or a scale with seven pitched per octave.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_and_chromatic

But my take is that the major and minor scale are built from five-note groupings with the intervals of WWHW and WHWW ... which is another way of saying that keys are built in fifths C-G-D-A etc. because C and G (I and V) are the most consonant notes ... the G is the 'secondary tonic'.

This is also the position of a music theory website ...

http://www.historyofmusictheory.com/?page_id=158 which states...

"This second tonic or “Di-tonic” which phonetically can be argued that this was the original meaning of “Dia-tonic” (Two tonics root and 5th producing the Hypo(dual tonic/di-tonic) scales as opposed to the common “Diatonic” naming convention."

But there is no historical reference here.

Is there an actual historical reference to our phonetic speculations that diatonic really means 'di-tonic'?

theory history

share|improve this question

asked 7 hours ago

Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman

390210

share|improve this question

asked 7 hours ago

Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman

390210

share|improve this question

asked 7 hours ago

Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman

390210

asked 7 hours ago

Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman

390210

asked 7 hours ago

Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman

390210

2 Answers
2

active

oldest

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2

Diatonic comes from Greek "διατονική" (there are early Greek music theory texts from times way before Western Middle Ages) and "di" and "dia" are completely different word constituents in Greek. It sounds like that website is making up things.

share|improve this answer

answered 5 hours ago

user57883user57883

211

New contributor

user57883 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.
  
  – Randy Zeitman
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I think the Greek might be διατονικό
  
  – Tom Serb
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…
  
  – replete
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.
  
  – user45266
  35 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

2

The only times I've seen the word "ditonic" used in music were in theoretical scale lists. Rather than meaning "two tonics" it means "two tones", in the same sense that we use in talking about pentatonic or heptatonic scales.

"dia-" is Greek for "through": diameters are measures through a circle, diagonals are lines dividing squares or rectangles, etc by going through their center from corner to corner, etc. Diatonic is literally "through the tones".

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

Tom SerbTom Serb

2967

add a comment | 

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2

Diatonic comes from Greek "διατονική" (there are early Greek music theory texts from times way before Western Middle Ages) and "di" and "dia" are completely different word constituents in Greek. It sounds like that website is making up things.

share|improve this answer

answered 5 hours ago

user57883user57883

211

New contributor

user57883 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.
  
  – Randy Zeitman
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I think the Greek might be διατονικό
  
  – Tom Serb
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…
  
  – replete
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.
  
  – user45266
  35 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

2

Diatonic comes from Greek "διατονική" (there are early Greek music theory texts from times way before Western Middle Ages) and "di" and "dia" are completely different word constituents in Greek. It sounds like that website is making up things.

share|improve this answer

answered 5 hours ago

user57883user57883

211

New contributor

user57883 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.
  
  – Randy Zeitman
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I think the Greek might be διατονικό
  
  – Tom Serb
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…
  
  – replete
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.
  
  – user45266
  35 mins ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

Diatonic comes from Greek "διατονική" (there are early Greek music theory texts from times way before Western Middle Ages) and "di" and "dia" are completely different word constituents in Greek. It sounds like that website is making up things.

share|improve this answer

answered 5 hours ago

user57883user57883

211

New contributor

user57883 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

share|improve this answer

answered 5 hours ago

user57883user57883

211

New contributor

user57883 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

answered 5 hours ago

user57883user57883

211

New contributor

user57883 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

answered 5 hours ago

user57883user57883

211

2

The only times I've seen the word "ditonic" used in music were in theoretical scale lists. Rather than meaning "two tonics" it means "two tones", in the same sense that we use in talking about pentatonic or heptatonic scales.

"dia-" is Greek for "through": diameters are measures through a circle, diagonals are lines dividing squares or rectangles, etc by going through their center from corner to corner, etc. Diatonic is literally "through the tones".

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

Tom SerbTom Serb

2967

add a comment | 

2

The only times I've seen the word "ditonic" used in music were in theoretical scale lists. Rather than meaning "two tonics" it means "two tones", in the same sense that we use in talking about pentatonic or heptatonic scales.

"dia-" is Greek for "through": diameters are measures through a circle, diagonals are lines dividing squares or rectangles, etc by going through their center from corner to corner, etc. Diatonic is literally "through the tones".

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

Tom SerbTom Serb

2967

add a comment | 

The only times I've seen the word "ditonic" used in music were in theoretical scale lists. Rather than meaning "two tonics" it means "two tones", in the same sense that we use in talking about pentatonic or heptatonic scales.

"dia-" is Greek for "through": diameters are measures through a circle, diagonals are lines dividing squares or rectangles, etc by going through their center from corner to corner, etc. Diatonic is literally "through the tones".

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

Tom SerbTom Serb

2967

share|improve this answer

answered 2 hours ago

Tom SerbTom Serb

2967

answered 2 hours ago

Tom SerbTom Serb

2967

answered 2 hours ago

Tom SerbTom Serb

2967