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Does Doodling or Improvising on the Piano Have Any Benefits?


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4















I have a friend who recently spent around seven hours of his day playing on the piano by himself. While around three hours was spent actually practicing, the other four were spent doodling or improvising. I told him that doodling on the piano is a waste of time because it doesn't help improve on anything.



Now I'm wondering about it. I've researched the problem without much luck. What are your thoughts on this? Can simply playing whatever comes to mind on a piano have any benefits to technique, understanding of chords and scales, performance, or anything else regarding one's ability to play the instrument?










share|improve this question


















  • 2





    Why are you discouraging his creative work? Improvising can be expected to improve one's ability to improvise. There is more to music than technique.

    – replete
    1 hour ago











  • Three hours of actual practice isn't bad. Playing is not the same as practicing, but if it doesn't cut into your practice time, there's nothing wrong with enjoying yourself by playing things you already know and like, or even just noodling around.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    1 hour ago













  • what style of music is your friend playing?

    – Michael Curtis
    1 hour ago






  • 1





    He plays a mix of classical and light-jazz.

    – Victor Resnov
    56 mins ago
















4















I have a friend who recently spent around seven hours of his day playing on the piano by himself. While around three hours was spent actually practicing, the other four were spent doodling or improvising. I told him that doodling on the piano is a waste of time because it doesn't help improve on anything.



Now I'm wondering about it. I've researched the problem without much luck. What are your thoughts on this? Can simply playing whatever comes to mind on a piano have any benefits to technique, understanding of chords and scales, performance, or anything else regarding one's ability to play the instrument?










share|improve this question


















  • 2





    Why are you discouraging his creative work? Improvising can be expected to improve one's ability to improvise. There is more to music than technique.

    – replete
    1 hour ago











  • Three hours of actual practice isn't bad. Playing is not the same as practicing, but if it doesn't cut into your practice time, there's nothing wrong with enjoying yourself by playing things you already know and like, or even just noodling around.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    1 hour ago













  • what style of music is your friend playing?

    – Michael Curtis
    1 hour ago






  • 1





    He plays a mix of classical and light-jazz.

    – Victor Resnov
    56 mins ago














4












4








4








I have a friend who recently spent around seven hours of his day playing on the piano by himself. While around three hours was spent actually practicing, the other four were spent doodling or improvising. I told him that doodling on the piano is a waste of time because it doesn't help improve on anything.



Now I'm wondering about it. I've researched the problem without much luck. What are your thoughts on this? Can simply playing whatever comes to mind on a piano have any benefits to technique, understanding of chords and scales, performance, or anything else regarding one's ability to play the instrument?










share|improve this question














I have a friend who recently spent around seven hours of his day playing on the piano by himself. While around three hours was spent actually practicing, the other four were spent doodling or improvising. I told him that doodling on the piano is a waste of time because it doesn't help improve on anything.



Now I'm wondering about it. I've researched the problem without much luck. What are your thoughts on this? Can simply playing whatever comes to mind on a piano have any benefits to technique, understanding of chords and scales, performance, or anything else regarding one's ability to play the instrument?







piano practice






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 1 hour ago









Victor Resnov Victor Resnov

1143




1143








  • 2





    Why are you discouraging his creative work? Improvising can be expected to improve one's ability to improvise. There is more to music than technique.

    – replete
    1 hour ago











  • Three hours of actual practice isn't bad. Playing is not the same as practicing, but if it doesn't cut into your practice time, there's nothing wrong with enjoying yourself by playing things you already know and like, or even just noodling around.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    1 hour ago













  • what style of music is your friend playing?

    – Michael Curtis
    1 hour ago






  • 1





    He plays a mix of classical and light-jazz.

    – Victor Resnov
    56 mins ago














  • 2





    Why are you discouraging his creative work? Improvising can be expected to improve one's ability to improvise. There is more to music than technique.

    – replete
    1 hour ago











  • Three hours of actual practice isn't bad. Playing is not the same as practicing, but if it doesn't cut into your practice time, there's nothing wrong with enjoying yourself by playing things you already know and like, or even just noodling around.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    1 hour ago













  • what style of music is your friend playing?

    – Michael Curtis
    1 hour ago






  • 1





    He plays a mix of classical and light-jazz.

    – Victor Resnov
    56 mins ago








2




2





Why are you discouraging his creative work? Improvising can be expected to improve one's ability to improvise. There is more to music than technique.

– replete
1 hour ago





Why are you discouraging his creative work? Improvising can be expected to improve one's ability to improvise. There is more to music than technique.

– replete
1 hour ago













Three hours of actual practice isn't bad. Playing is not the same as practicing, but if it doesn't cut into your practice time, there's nothing wrong with enjoying yourself by playing things you already know and like, or even just noodling around.

– Your Uncle Bob
1 hour ago







Three hours of actual practice isn't bad. Playing is not the same as practicing, but if it doesn't cut into your practice time, there's nothing wrong with enjoying yourself by playing things you already know and like, or even just noodling around.

– Your Uncle Bob
1 hour ago















what style of music is your friend playing?

– Michael Curtis
1 hour ago





what style of music is your friend playing?

– Michael Curtis
1 hour ago




1




1





He plays a mix of classical and light-jazz.

– Victor Resnov
56 mins ago





He plays a mix of classical and light-jazz.

– Victor Resnov
56 mins ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















3














I think you were too harsh. Improvisation is itself a useful skill, especially so if your friend has an interest in jazz. Trying new things can also help with composition - I'd imagine most music doesn't spring from the composer's head fully formed. You may find an interesting melody or rhythm when just noodling around that you want to keep for later. And above all, if your friend spent 4 hours playing the piano for his own enjoyment, that's a perfectly legitimate reason in itself. Intensive practicing can be draining, there's almost certainly some mental benefits in taking a break and just having fun!






share|improve this answer
























  • I haven't thought about it like that. Thanks!

    – Victor Resnov
    1 hour ago



















1














If you're practicing, then doodling or improvising is perfectly fine! It actually can be a form of practice because it helps with coming up with new ideas and freeing your hands more on the piano.



Also, depending on the type of improvisation, it can be almost just as valuable as practicing for real. If you're able to incorporate scales and triads and other technique into your "doodles", then that can have some benefits for technique. Also, improvising on a song you already know or one you're still learning can have benefits too as you're getting more comfortable with the song. Also, improvising with a new genre of music like jazz if you're classical or doing ragtime can help you with learning different types of music.



The only "doodles" that aren't valuable are playing Hot-Cross Buns or something like that that's way too easy. Otherwise, you're doing good! You can't be strictly serious all the time on the piano, or you'll learn to hate it. Have some fun!






share|improve this answer








New contributor




Commander Continuey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




























    1














    "Doodling" sound a bit dismissive. "Improvising" sounds more serious.



    I would help to know more about just what this playing involves.



    But, if we assume that this playing is musically interesting. I think it is valuable. But that value will depend on what your friends goals are and they go about practicing.



    Surely everyone will want to have good technique, but time spent improvising is about learning how to develop new ideas spontaneously. You will concentrate on other things beside technique. Things like recombining and varying musical patterns.



    It seem important to note many good players cannot improvise, because they didn't devote time to developing that unique set of skills. Isn't that a shortcoming for a musician too?





    Jazz will be the obvious case for piano improvization, but there is a tradition of improvisation in classical style too. Take a look at these for starters...




    • Techniques of keyboard improvisation in the German Baroque and their implications for today's pedagogy


    • Partimenti of Durante - especially look at the suggested "styles" to improvise the right hand part over the notated bass.






    share|improve this answer

































      0














      I do perhaps see where you are coming from - 7 hours a day certainly is a big investment, and there can be a risk in doodling (and, for that matter, noodling) in that your fingers follow the same patterns again and again, simply reinforcing those same patterns - which might make you better able to follow those patterns, but little else.



      On the other hand, if you can avoid that pitfall: Improvisation can teach you a lot about composition; it can enable you to find the 'sound in your head' more quickly (whether in conjunction with existing knowledge about scales, or just giving you another more instinctive way to do it); it can generate interesting ideas for later composition; it can provide just as much of an opportunity for applying fingering techniques as any other type of playing.



      Ultimately, every activity is going to exercise some musical 'muscles' more than others. Sight-reading pieces from score doesn't reinforce your skills at playing by ear, or help you actively practice your composing skills or generate any of your own ideas. Playing scales doesn't teach you much about arranging. Doing harmony exercises doesn't help your physical stamina. But they all have their plus points too. Taking a step back and doing a cost/benefit analysis isn't a bad thing!





      share























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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        3














        I think you were too harsh. Improvisation is itself a useful skill, especially so if your friend has an interest in jazz. Trying new things can also help with composition - I'd imagine most music doesn't spring from the composer's head fully formed. You may find an interesting melody or rhythm when just noodling around that you want to keep for later. And above all, if your friend spent 4 hours playing the piano for his own enjoyment, that's a perfectly legitimate reason in itself. Intensive practicing can be draining, there's almost certainly some mental benefits in taking a break and just having fun!






        share|improve this answer
























        • I haven't thought about it like that. Thanks!

          – Victor Resnov
          1 hour ago
















        3














        I think you were too harsh. Improvisation is itself a useful skill, especially so if your friend has an interest in jazz. Trying new things can also help with composition - I'd imagine most music doesn't spring from the composer's head fully formed. You may find an interesting melody or rhythm when just noodling around that you want to keep for later. And above all, if your friend spent 4 hours playing the piano for his own enjoyment, that's a perfectly legitimate reason in itself. Intensive practicing can be draining, there's almost certainly some mental benefits in taking a break and just having fun!






        share|improve this answer
























        • I haven't thought about it like that. Thanks!

          – Victor Resnov
          1 hour ago














        3












        3








        3







        I think you were too harsh. Improvisation is itself a useful skill, especially so if your friend has an interest in jazz. Trying new things can also help with composition - I'd imagine most music doesn't spring from the composer's head fully formed. You may find an interesting melody or rhythm when just noodling around that you want to keep for later. And above all, if your friend spent 4 hours playing the piano for his own enjoyment, that's a perfectly legitimate reason in itself. Intensive practicing can be draining, there's almost certainly some mental benefits in taking a break and just having fun!






        share|improve this answer













        I think you were too harsh. Improvisation is itself a useful skill, especially so if your friend has an interest in jazz. Trying new things can also help with composition - I'd imagine most music doesn't spring from the composer's head fully formed. You may find an interesting melody or rhythm when just noodling around that you want to keep for later. And above all, if your friend spent 4 hours playing the piano for his own enjoyment, that's a perfectly legitimate reason in itself. Intensive practicing can be draining, there's almost certainly some mental benefits in taking a break and just having fun!







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 1 hour ago









        Nuclear WangNuclear Wang

        1312




        1312













        • I haven't thought about it like that. Thanks!

          – Victor Resnov
          1 hour ago



















        • I haven't thought about it like that. Thanks!

          – Victor Resnov
          1 hour ago

















        I haven't thought about it like that. Thanks!

        – Victor Resnov
        1 hour ago





        I haven't thought about it like that. Thanks!

        – Victor Resnov
        1 hour ago











        1














        If you're practicing, then doodling or improvising is perfectly fine! It actually can be a form of practice because it helps with coming up with new ideas and freeing your hands more on the piano.



        Also, depending on the type of improvisation, it can be almost just as valuable as practicing for real. If you're able to incorporate scales and triads and other technique into your "doodles", then that can have some benefits for technique. Also, improvising on a song you already know or one you're still learning can have benefits too as you're getting more comfortable with the song. Also, improvising with a new genre of music like jazz if you're classical or doing ragtime can help you with learning different types of music.



        The only "doodles" that aren't valuable are playing Hot-Cross Buns or something like that that's way too easy. Otherwise, you're doing good! You can't be strictly serious all the time on the piano, or you'll learn to hate it. Have some fun!






        share|improve this answer








        New contributor




        Commander Continuey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.

























          1














          If you're practicing, then doodling or improvising is perfectly fine! It actually can be a form of practice because it helps with coming up with new ideas and freeing your hands more on the piano.



          Also, depending on the type of improvisation, it can be almost just as valuable as practicing for real. If you're able to incorporate scales and triads and other technique into your "doodles", then that can have some benefits for technique. Also, improvising on a song you already know or one you're still learning can have benefits too as you're getting more comfortable with the song. Also, improvising with a new genre of music like jazz if you're classical or doing ragtime can help you with learning different types of music.



          The only "doodles" that aren't valuable are playing Hot-Cross Buns or something like that that's way too easy. Otherwise, you're doing good! You can't be strictly serious all the time on the piano, or you'll learn to hate it. Have some fun!






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Commander Continuey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.























            1












            1








            1







            If you're practicing, then doodling or improvising is perfectly fine! It actually can be a form of practice because it helps with coming up with new ideas and freeing your hands more on the piano.



            Also, depending on the type of improvisation, it can be almost just as valuable as practicing for real. If you're able to incorporate scales and triads and other technique into your "doodles", then that can have some benefits for technique. Also, improvising on a song you already know or one you're still learning can have benefits too as you're getting more comfortable with the song. Also, improvising with a new genre of music like jazz if you're classical or doing ragtime can help you with learning different types of music.



            The only "doodles" that aren't valuable are playing Hot-Cross Buns or something like that that's way too easy. Otherwise, you're doing good! You can't be strictly serious all the time on the piano, or you'll learn to hate it. Have some fun!






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Commander Continuey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.










            If you're practicing, then doodling or improvising is perfectly fine! It actually can be a form of practice because it helps with coming up with new ideas and freeing your hands more on the piano.



            Also, depending on the type of improvisation, it can be almost just as valuable as practicing for real. If you're able to incorporate scales and triads and other technique into your "doodles", then that can have some benefits for technique. Also, improvising on a song you already know or one you're still learning can have benefits too as you're getting more comfortable with the song. Also, improvising with a new genre of music like jazz if you're classical or doing ragtime can help you with learning different types of music.



            The only "doodles" that aren't valuable are playing Hot-Cross Buns or something like that that's way too easy. Otherwise, you're doing good! You can't be strictly serious all the time on the piano, or you'll learn to hate it. Have some fun!







            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            Commander Continuey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer






            New contributor




            Commander Continuey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            answered 57 mins ago









            Commander ContinueyCommander Continuey

            111




            111




            New contributor




            Commander Continuey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.





            New contributor





            Commander Continuey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            Commander Continuey is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.























                1














                "Doodling" sound a bit dismissive. "Improvising" sounds more serious.



                I would help to know more about just what this playing involves.



                But, if we assume that this playing is musically interesting. I think it is valuable. But that value will depend on what your friends goals are and they go about practicing.



                Surely everyone will want to have good technique, but time spent improvising is about learning how to develop new ideas spontaneously. You will concentrate on other things beside technique. Things like recombining and varying musical patterns.



                It seem important to note many good players cannot improvise, because they didn't devote time to developing that unique set of skills. Isn't that a shortcoming for a musician too?





                Jazz will be the obvious case for piano improvization, but there is a tradition of improvisation in classical style too. Take a look at these for starters...




                • Techniques of keyboard improvisation in the German Baroque and their implications for today's pedagogy


                • Partimenti of Durante - especially look at the suggested "styles" to improvise the right hand part over the notated bass.






                share|improve this answer






























                  1














                  "Doodling" sound a bit dismissive. "Improvising" sounds more serious.



                  I would help to know more about just what this playing involves.



                  But, if we assume that this playing is musically interesting. I think it is valuable. But that value will depend on what your friends goals are and they go about practicing.



                  Surely everyone will want to have good technique, but time spent improvising is about learning how to develop new ideas spontaneously. You will concentrate on other things beside technique. Things like recombining and varying musical patterns.



                  It seem important to note many good players cannot improvise, because they didn't devote time to developing that unique set of skills. Isn't that a shortcoming for a musician too?





                  Jazz will be the obvious case for piano improvization, but there is a tradition of improvisation in classical style too. Take a look at these for starters...




                  • Techniques of keyboard improvisation in the German Baroque and their implications for today's pedagogy


                  • Partimenti of Durante - especially look at the suggested "styles" to improvise the right hand part over the notated bass.






                  share|improve this answer




























                    1












                    1








                    1







                    "Doodling" sound a bit dismissive. "Improvising" sounds more serious.



                    I would help to know more about just what this playing involves.



                    But, if we assume that this playing is musically interesting. I think it is valuable. But that value will depend on what your friends goals are and they go about practicing.



                    Surely everyone will want to have good technique, but time spent improvising is about learning how to develop new ideas spontaneously. You will concentrate on other things beside technique. Things like recombining and varying musical patterns.



                    It seem important to note many good players cannot improvise, because they didn't devote time to developing that unique set of skills. Isn't that a shortcoming for a musician too?





                    Jazz will be the obvious case for piano improvization, but there is a tradition of improvisation in classical style too. Take a look at these for starters...




                    • Techniques of keyboard improvisation in the German Baroque and their implications for today's pedagogy


                    • Partimenti of Durante - especially look at the suggested "styles" to improvise the right hand part over the notated bass.






                    share|improve this answer















                    "Doodling" sound a bit dismissive. "Improvising" sounds more serious.



                    I would help to know more about just what this playing involves.



                    But, if we assume that this playing is musically interesting. I think it is valuable. But that value will depend on what your friends goals are and they go about practicing.



                    Surely everyone will want to have good technique, but time spent improvising is about learning how to develop new ideas spontaneously. You will concentrate on other things beside technique. Things like recombining and varying musical patterns.



                    It seem important to note many good players cannot improvise, because they didn't devote time to developing that unique set of skills. Isn't that a shortcoming for a musician too?





                    Jazz will be the obvious case for piano improvization, but there is a tradition of improvisation in classical style too. Take a look at these for starters...




                    • Techniques of keyboard improvisation in the German Baroque and their implications for today's pedagogy


                    • Partimenti of Durante - especially look at the suggested "styles" to improvise the right hand part over the notated bass.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited 51 mins ago

























                    answered 1 hour ago









                    Michael CurtisMichael Curtis

                    9,644534




                    9,644534























                        0














                        I do perhaps see where you are coming from - 7 hours a day certainly is a big investment, and there can be a risk in doodling (and, for that matter, noodling) in that your fingers follow the same patterns again and again, simply reinforcing those same patterns - which might make you better able to follow those patterns, but little else.



                        On the other hand, if you can avoid that pitfall: Improvisation can teach you a lot about composition; it can enable you to find the 'sound in your head' more quickly (whether in conjunction with existing knowledge about scales, or just giving you another more instinctive way to do it); it can generate interesting ideas for later composition; it can provide just as much of an opportunity for applying fingering techniques as any other type of playing.



                        Ultimately, every activity is going to exercise some musical 'muscles' more than others. Sight-reading pieces from score doesn't reinforce your skills at playing by ear, or help you actively practice your composing skills or generate any of your own ideas. Playing scales doesn't teach you much about arranging. Doing harmony exercises doesn't help your physical stamina. But they all have their plus points too. Taking a step back and doing a cost/benefit analysis isn't a bad thing!





                        share




























                          0














                          I do perhaps see where you are coming from - 7 hours a day certainly is a big investment, and there can be a risk in doodling (and, for that matter, noodling) in that your fingers follow the same patterns again and again, simply reinforcing those same patterns - which might make you better able to follow those patterns, but little else.



                          On the other hand, if you can avoid that pitfall: Improvisation can teach you a lot about composition; it can enable you to find the 'sound in your head' more quickly (whether in conjunction with existing knowledge about scales, or just giving you another more instinctive way to do it); it can generate interesting ideas for later composition; it can provide just as much of an opportunity for applying fingering techniques as any other type of playing.



                          Ultimately, every activity is going to exercise some musical 'muscles' more than others. Sight-reading pieces from score doesn't reinforce your skills at playing by ear, or help you actively practice your composing skills or generate any of your own ideas. Playing scales doesn't teach you much about arranging. Doing harmony exercises doesn't help your physical stamina. But they all have their plus points too. Taking a step back and doing a cost/benefit analysis isn't a bad thing!





                          share


























                            0












                            0








                            0







                            I do perhaps see where you are coming from - 7 hours a day certainly is a big investment, and there can be a risk in doodling (and, for that matter, noodling) in that your fingers follow the same patterns again and again, simply reinforcing those same patterns - which might make you better able to follow those patterns, but little else.



                            On the other hand, if you can avoid that pitfall: Improvisation can teach you a lot about composition; it can enable you to find the 'sound in your head' more quickly (whether in conjunction with existing knowledge about scales, or just giving you another more instinctive way to do it); it can generate interesting ideas for later composition; it can provide just as much of an opportunity for applying fingering techniques as any other type of playing.



                            Ultimately, every activity is going to exercise some musical 'muscles' more than others. Sight-reading pieces from score doesn't reinforce your skills at playing by ear, or help you actively practice your composing skills or generate any of your own ideas. Playing scales doesn't teach you much about arranging. Doing harmony exercises doesn't help your physical stamina. But they all have their plus points too. Taking a step back and doing a cost/benefit analysis isn't a bad thing!





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                            I do perhaps see where you are coming from - 7 hours a day certainly is a big investment, and there can be a risk in doodling (and, for that matter, noodling) in that your fingers follow the same patterns again and again, simply reinforcing those same patterns - which might make you better able to follow those patterns, but little else.



                            On the other hand, if you can avoid that pitfall: Improvisation can teach you a lot about composition; it can enable you to find the 'sound in your head' more quickly (whether in conjunction with existing knowledge about scales, or just giving you another more instinctive way to do it); it can generate interesting ideas for later composition; it can provide just as much of an opportunity for applying fingering techniques as any other type of playing.



                            Ultimately, every activity is going to exercise some musical 'muscles' more than others. Sight-reading pieces from score doesn't reinforce your skills at playing by ear, or help you actively practice your composing skills or generate any of your own ideas. Playing scales doesn't teach you much about arranging. Doing harmony exercises doesn't help your physical stamina. But they all have their plus points too. Taking a step back and doing a cost/benefit analysis isn't a bad thing!






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                            answered 9 mins ago









                            topo mortotopo morto

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