"Cheaper by the dozen" phrase origin?

Taking an academic pseudonym?

Does a star need to be inside a galaxy?

Why there is square in MSE (mean squared error)?

Can you make a Spell Glyph of a spell that has the potential to target more than one creature?

What happens to someone who dies before their clone has matured?

If you're falling because of ball bearings, do you automatically land on caltrops in the same space?

Contribution form

How does a single engine tail wheel landing gear airplane turn when it is on the ground?

Why does the current not skip resistors R3 and R5 when R6 and R4 have no resistance?

Why did Tywin never remarry?

Father gets chickenpox, but doesn't infect his two children. How is this possible?

GPL - Is it required to post source code to the Public - when is a software released?

Is 'bad luck' with former employees a red flag?

Why Third 'Reich'? Why is 'reich' not translated when 'third' is? What is the English synonym of reich?

Mathematica seems confused about Kilograms vs KilogramsForce

What happens when the last remaining players refuse to kill each other?

How do I add numbers from two txt files with Bash?

Buying a "Used" Router

if else in jq is not giving expected output

Why are recumbent bicycles and velomobiles illegal in UCI bicycle racing?

How to explain one side of Super Earth is smoother than the other side?

How can guns be countered by melee combat without raw-ability or exceptional explanations?

If an area is covered in both Ball Bearings and Caltrops, does the creature need to move at half speed or quarter speed to avoid both their effects?

Are there any rules or guidelines about the order of saving throws?

If you're falling because of ball bearings, do you automatically land on caltrops in the same space?Does Legendary Resistance allow a Stunned or Paralyzed creature to succeed on a save it would otherwise automatically fail?Is there a general rule for which saving throws you can repeat?Do PCs roll saves for pre-existing effects while Unconscious?Can I pick a different saving throw proficiency for Slippery Mind if I already have proficiency with Wisdom saves?How to resolve multiple 'start of turn' triggersWhy did the designers refactor Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves into six different saves in 5e?Can a PC regularly impose disadvantage on enemies' saves? If so, how?Is there a hierarchy of specificity?If an area is covered in both Ball Bearings and Caltrops, does the creature need to move at half speed or quarter speed to avoid both their effects?If you're falling because of ball bearings, do you automatically land on caltrops in the same space?

14

1

$begingroup$

Let's take the example from In an area covered with Caltrops and Ball Bearings, If you're falling because of Ball Bearings, do you automatically land on the Caltrops too?

In an area covered with ball bearings and caltrops, a character is moving at full speed. She is, then, required to make a save against ball bearings and again caltrops. It does matter, because:

1. If caltrops save is first, and fails, it makes character stop moving and conditions no longer force ball bearings save.


2. If ball bearings save is first, and fails, it may give disadvantage to caltrops save (this is a topic of question linked, not this one).

As you see, there may be a situation where at least two saves are required, but no "natural" indication which one is made first. Is there a general rule about saving throws order? If there is, please use example above as example how to apply it.

dnd-5e saving-throw

share|improve this question

edited 5 hours ago

Rubiksmoose

55.5k9270417

asked 5 hours ago

MołotMołot

5,61613262

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I'm not convinced that failing the save against the caltrops prevents you from having to save against the bearings. You still "moved across the covered area" before you triggered the save against the caltrops.
  $endgroup$
  – Ryan Thompson
  4 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @RyanThompson it's "A creature moving", not "a creature that moved" - but that is a matter for new question. If it'll be proven one way or another, I'll gladly update my question.
  $endgroup$
  – Mołot
  4 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

14

1

$begingroup$

Let's take the example from In an area covered with Caltrops and Ball Bearings, If you're falling because of Ball Bearings, do you automatically land on the Caltrops too?

In an area covered with ball bearings and caltrops, a character is moving at full speed. She is, then, required to make a save against ball bearings and again caltrops. It does matter, because:

1. If caltrops save is first, and fails, it makes character stop moving and conditions no longer force ball bearings save.


2. If ball bearings save is first, and fails, it may give disadvantage to caltrops save (this is a topic of question linked, not this one).

As you see, there may be a situation where at least two saves are required, but no "natural" indication which one is made first. Is there a general rule about saving throws order? If there is, please use example above as example how to apply it.

dnd-5e saving-throw

share|improve this question

edited 5 hours ago

Rubiksmoose

55.5k9270417

asked 5 hours ago

MołotMołot

5,61613262

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I'm not convinced that failing the save against the caltrops prevents you from having to save against the bearings. You still "moved across the covered area" before you triggered the save against the caltrops.
  $endgroup$
  – Ryan Thompson
  4 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @RyanThompson it's "A creature moving", not "a creature that moved" - but that is a matter for new question. If it'll be proven one way or another, I'll gladly update my question.
  $endgroup$
  – Mołot
  4 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

Let's take the example from In an area covered with Caltrops and Ball Bearings, If you're falling because of Ball Bearings, do you automatically land on the Caltrops too?

In an area covered with ball bearings and caltrops, a character is moving at full speed. She is, then, required to make a save against ball bearings and again caltrops. It does matter, because:

1. If caltrops save is first, and fails, it makes character stop moving and conditions no longer force ball bearings save.


2. If ball bearings save is first, and fails, it may give disadvantage to caltrops save (this is a topic of question linked, not this one).

As you see, there may be a situation where at least two saves are required, but no "natural" indication which one is made first. Is there a general rule about saving throws order? If there is, please use example above as example how to apply it.

dnd-5e saving-throw

share|improve this question

edited 5 hours ago

Rubiksmoose

55.5k9270417

asked 5 hours ago

MołotMołot

5,61613262

$endgroup$

share|improve this question

edited 5 hours ago

Rubiksmoose

55.5k9270417

asked 5 hours ago

MołotMołot

5,61613262

share|improve this question

edited 5 hours ago

Rubiksmoose

55.5k9270417

asked 5 hours ago

MołotMołot

5,61613262

edited 5 hours ago

Rubiksmoose

55.5k9270417

edited 5 hours ago

Rubiksmoose

55.5k9270417

asked 5 hours ago

MołotMołot

5,61613262

asked 5 hours ago

MołotMołot

5,61613262

1 Answer
1

active

oldest

votes

22

$begingroup$

For simultaneous saves, there is an optional rule

Generally, when one is making a saving throw you are making them one at a time in the order they occur. That is the rule that saving throws operate under normally. However, if the saves somehow end up happening at the same time with no logical way to separate them, we do have an optional rule that will help.

In Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule that a DM can use to adjudicate cases where multiple things happen at the same time:

Simultaneous Effects

If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or
monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM —
who controls that creature decides the order in which those things
happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player
character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens
first. (p. 77)

So, in this case, the player who is making the saves gets to choose the order of the saves they make assuming it is their turn. In the weirder case of the player moving through the caltrops/bearings on another person's turn, that person will decide the order.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 5 hours ago

RubiksmooseRubiksmoose

55.5k9270417

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
  $endgroup$
  – Mołot
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
  $endgroup$
  – Rubiksmoose
  5 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
  $endgroup$
  – D. Ben Knoble
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
  $endgroup$
  – Sdjz
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
  $endgroup$
  – D. Ben Knoble
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

Your Answer

StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});

draft saved

draft discarded

Sign up or log in

StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});

Sign up using Google

Sign up using Facebook

Sign up using Email and Password

Post as a guest

Name

Email

Required, but never shown

StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f141406%2fare-there-any-rules-or-guidelines-about-the-order-of-saving-throws%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest

Name

Email

Required, but never shown

22

$begingroup$

For simultaneous saves, there is an optional rule

Generally, when one is making a saving throw you are making them one at a time in the order they occur. That is the rule that saving throws operate under normally. However, if the saves somehow end up happening at the same time with no logical way to separate them, we do have an optional rule that will help.

In Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule that a DM can use to adjudicate cases where multiple things happen at the same time:

Simultaneous Effects

If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or
monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM —
who controls that creature decides the order in which those things
happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player
character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens
first. (p. 77)

So, in this case, the player who is making the saves gets to choose the order of the saves they make assuming it is their turn. In the weirder case of the player moving through the caltrops/bearings on another person's turn, that person will decide the order.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 5 hours ago

RubiksmooseRubiksmoose

55.5k9270417

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
  $endgroup$
  – Mołot
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
  $endgroup$
  – Rubiksmoose
  5 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
  $endgroup$
  – D. Ben Knoble
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
  $endgroup$
  – Sdjz
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
  $endgroup$
  – D. Ben Knoble
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

22

$begingroup$

For simultaneous saves, there is an optional rule

Generally, when one is making a saving throw you are making them one at a time in the order they occur. That is the rule that saving throws operate under normally. However, if the saves somehow end up happening at the same time with no logical way to separate them, we do have an optional rule that will help.

In Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule that a DM can use to adjudicate cases where multiple things happen at the same time:

Simultaneous Effects

If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or
monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM —
who controls that creature decides the order in which those things
happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player
character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens
first. (p. 77)

So, in this case, the player who is making the saves gets to choose the order of the saves they make assuming it is their turn. In the weirder case of the player moving through the caltrops/bearings on another person's turn, that person will decide the order.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 5 hours ago

RubiksmooseRubiksmoose

55.5k9270417

$endgroup$

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  So, moving voluntary = caltrops first, to avoid ball bearings or disadvantage, but under dissonant whispers person who used whispers can force bearings first, to be sure both saves are unavoidable and possibly with disadvantage, right?
  $endgroup$
  – Mołot
  5 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Mołot yup! Although I know what you mean, be careful with "voluntary". You can voluntarily move on someone else's turn (Ready action) and you can involuntarily move on your own turn. But yeah, nitpicking aside, you are correct.
  $endgroup$
  – Rubiksmoose
  5 hours ago
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  I dont agree with your last sentence: from the cited text, a PC moving through the area on a other person’s turn may still control their character (due, e.g., to a reaction as opposed to force movement). This implies to me that the controlling player should still get to make the decision.
  $endgroup$
  – D. Ben Knoble
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @D.BenKnoble This answer is merely using the rule from Xanathar's Guide, which this answer also quotes. Note that it specifically states that the decision is made by whoever controls the creature whose turn it is. In the part " who controls that creature ", "that creature" refers to " on a character or monster’s turn". The player may indeed be controlling their character when moving during another's turn but the rule only cares about whose turn it is. This is also presented only as an optional rule so ignoring it is also perfectly fine.
  $endgroup$
  – Sdjz
  3 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  $begingroup$
  @Sdjz ah I see—I mis-parsed the sentence
  $endgroup$
  – D. Ben Knoble
  2 hours ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

$begingroup$

For simultaneous saves, there is an optional rule

Generally, when one is making a saving throw you are making them one at a time in the order they occur. That is the rule that saving throws operate under normally. However, if the saves somehow end up happening at the same time with no logical way to separate them, we do have an optional rule that will help.

In Xanathar's Guide to Everything there is an optional rule that a DM can use to adjudicate cases where multiple things happen at the same time:

Simultaneous Effects

If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or
monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM —
who controls that creature decides the order in which those things
happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player
character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens
first. (p. 77)

So, in this case, the player who is making the saves gets to choose the order of the saves they make assuming it is their turn. In the weirder case of the player moving through the caltrops/bearings on another person's turn, that person will decide the order.

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 5 hours ago

RubiksmooseRubiksmoose

55.5k9270417

$endgroup$

share|improve this answer

edited 5 hours ago

answered 5 hours ago

RubiksmooseRubiksmoose

55.5k9270417

answered 5 hours ago

RubiksmooseRubiksmoose

55.5k9270417

answered 5 hours ago

RubiksmooseRubiksmoose

55.5k9270417